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Race, Religion, and Proposition 8

Our new president-elect, California's African-American voters, and unfortunate homophobia in churches have created a fuzzy rift between blacks and gays. It's time to stop creating scapegoats and get proactive.
An Advocate.com exclusive posted November 12, 2008
Race, Religion, and Proposition 8

When religion is used as a governing tool to address the changing needs, values, and mores of a growing society, it is not only looking for simple solutions to complex questions, but it is also looking for scapegoats in order to not address the questions.

No greater example of this was more evident than the results of the vote on Proposition 8, a measure eliminating marriage equality for same-sex couples after the California supreme court ruled in May that a “separate and unequal” system of domestic partnership for same-sex couples is not only blatantly discriminatory but it is also unconstitutional. And the scapegoats for its passing are African-Americans.

With huge numbers of voters hitting the polls last week to cast their ballots for now president-elect Barack Obama, African-American Californians came out in record numbers too. And as they cast their ballots for Obama, they also overwhelmingly voted yes (70%) on Proposition 8, triggering white queer outrage and backlash across the country.

But the widespread public sentiment against same-sex marriage across demographics revealed that the outcome was not about how African-Americans voted but rather how the entire state of California did. Let us remember that proponents of Proposition 8 argued that the court overstepped its authority, imposing its will to create something the country, let alone the state of California, was not ready for.

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Reader Comments

These comments are reproduced as written by visitors to this Web site. They have not been edited for content, grammar, or spelling. The viewpoints appearing here are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion or views of advocate.com, The Advocate, or its affiliates.

  • Name: gary
    Date posted: 2008-12-18 10:23 PM
    Hometown: chapel hill, nc

    Comment:

    you are a hypocrite. from 2006, ms monroe "Obama’s The Audacity of Hope is not a must-read for LGBT voters because he fails to fully comprehend or sincerely commit to the issue of social justice for all Americans. He does not tackle head-on how the religious rhetoric of this political era has played an audacious role in discrimination against LGBT people, leaving us with little to no hope, his rhetoric included. If he should run for president, he wouldn’t get my vote. " Yet now you join the chorus of voices that ignores homophobia and scapegoats the entire LGBT community for the passage of prop 8....."If only you white gays understood white privilege" BS. bigotry is bigotry, no matter the color. and hypocrisy is hypocrisy, and you ms. Monroe, are a hypocrite


  • Name: taneshia
    Date posted: 2008-11-16 12:01 AM
    Hometown: lexington

    Comment:

    and like the author (and i have pointed out beforehand) barack obama - a man who is supported to support equality - clearly sent a message to the blk community that marriage was between a man and a woman. so the message of equality in relation to sexuality has not been articulated in the blk community. blk people DO need to work on their homophobia and stop perpetuating similar prejudice and discrimination on their lgbt family. still i must remind the white lgbt family (cuz clearly lgbt of color are in a diff position) that alliances must not be assumed. yall have to cont to reach out to lgbt people of clolor and people of color in general. your anger towards blk people is justifiable but if yall hold onto that then there will never be an alliance between blks and gays, and old alliances - lgbt of color may separate further. so, let's focus on stopping bigotry within each of our communities.


  • Name: ron
    Date posted: 2008-11-14 8:52 PM
    Hometown: losangles

    Comment:

    If you lived in my community(westhollywood) and saw the way black ministers and black community leaders talked on the 6 pm news about Me not being good anough to have the same rites with my partner as they share with theres and saw the numbers of blacks that came out for OUR new prez.There is no way that it did not have a afect on the passing of prop 8.So yes I am pissed at the black community.If I were you, dont be suprised when Obamo looses becouse just like those ministers on the 6pm news called on there poeples to vote so that gays can not marry I will be asking my friends/family and any stranger to not vote for any black canidate or anything that keeps your communitys rites.I will work to over turn everything that I see that will punish them.Yea I know that not all blacks voted that way just as not all whites voted for the idiot goerge w.But you can not tell me that most didnt.So you reep what you sow.


  • Name: Robert Goodman, M.S.
    Date posted: 2008-11-14 12:17 AM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    Jeramy, Dear, you have a lot of nerve, sitting up in a wonderful country like Canada, where you have enjoyed FULL EQUALITY for years, and casting judgement on those of us who are still fighting for our basic humanity IN JUST ONE US STATE! Believe me, if you worked for 47 years to secure basic equality in your home state, only to have it ripped from you by a mop 4.5 months later, you might feel a little bit different. Grow up.


  • Name: Mark
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 5:41 PM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    I had a great response, and I was really nice in it, but I am not one who counts my characters as I type.. So here it is Short: -BAYARD RUSTIN, the openly GAY adviser to Martin Luther King. Who was responsible for the major protests and Non-violent protesting - African Americans owe a lot to him and us white voting liberals and gays. I wanted to say we do have to hold African-American Voters Accountable. But, they did us one favor as well. Prop 8 not passing fired up the masses and we are not just happy with one state and no federal recognition. It is time to hole one African-American to his promise of change, all of our state legislators, and our judges. We need to repeal DOMA and go for full equality now.


  • Name: Mark
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 5:32 PM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    We do have to address the African-American Community for its 70% approval of Prop 8. We have "a dream" too. Gays throughout history have helped in civil rights movements of every other minority, woman included. I am not sure if you have heard of BAYARD RUSTIN. Few realize that he was an openly GAY African-American ADVISER to Martin Luther King. BAYARD was responsible for Organizing the most important MARCHES and protests in the 60s and he was the idea man behind NON-VIOLENT PROTESTS. MLK and the African-American Community owe a lot to the gay community and to especially one important gay man. I would have been a little more elequent in my delivery, but this message board didn't allow for the extra wording.


  • Name: Jill American
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 3:52 PM
    Hometown: New Jersey

    Comment:

    Finally someone points out that Obama is against gay marriage! I was surprised that the gay community jumped on the Obama train so early in the race. Even the Advocate pointed out in the early days that Hillary was probably our best bet. Even this Hillary supporter sees that the country is in a much better place with Obama over Hillary but I am not sure the gay community is. Maybe if Obama had to campaign more in California (it turned blue early) he could have addressed why he was against Prop 8 and reached all of his followers (black, white, and everything else). I guess you could say he owes us.


  • Name: Dick
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 3:03 PM
    Hometown: Palm Springs

    Comment:

    Reverend Monroe chooses to ignore the salient fact when considering the black vote on Proposition 8. No other minority has been subjected to discrimination to the extent that the black population has. GLBT individuals have for many decades fought for the equal rights of the black minority. How quickly our black brethren have forgotten the pain of sitting in the back of the bus, attending black only schools, drinking from "Negro" water fountains, being denied the right to marry a white person in 1/2 of the states and even attending a white church. Those same churchs were at the forefront of enforcing the discriminations. Now we ironically find that the blacks have walked through the door of equal opportunity and slammed that door in the faces of the GLBT community. It's the "I've got mine - you don't need yours" mentality. Shame on religion and shame even more on the black community for their endorsement of prejudice and discrimination. How quickly they forget!


  • Name: Jeramy
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 2:53 PM
    Hometown: Montreal, Quebec

    Comment:

    Well, Robert Goodman, M.S, thank you for your response and for respecting my right to express my opinion. Oh wait you didn't... I guess you label Log Cabin republicans as homophobic as well. How does that work? Rest assured that if I ever move to the US and am faced with an election I will contact you first Robert Goodman, M.S to ask you how I should vote so that I do not offend you by going astray from the flock. Btw, CAPS really aren't needed dear


  • Name: Don Charles
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 2:39 PM
    Hometown: Kansas City

    Comment:

    Rev. Monroe knows damn well that she won't encourage Black religious folk to respect Gay people by referring to them as "queers". I've told her this before via email, and she just ignores me. Just her insistence on embracing words like "queer" and "dyke" (or worse, "dykette", which she used in a recent essay) undermines her activism and reflects poorly on her judgment. There's no way in Hell you can effectively confront the power structure while embracing the dehumanizing slurs that same power structure has created to marginalize you! I'm saying this to Rev. Irene and also to anyone who's planning to march on a church carrying a "we're here, we're queer" sign. All you're doing is validating the "Yes on 8" mentality.


  • Name: Robert Goodman, M.S.
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 1:38 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    Jeramy- Get a clue. Voting for Prop 8 DOES MAKE A PERSON HOMOPHOBIC! People may not like having to face that uncomfortable fact about themselves, but denying it won't make it different or go away. I am sick and tired of people not accepting basic responsibility here. I can deal with someone saying, "Yes. I voted this way, and I accept that it is a form of hatred and intolerance toward Gay and Lesbian people." What I cannot accept is someone voting to take away another groups BASIC, FUNDAMENTAL, HUMAN CIVIL RIGHTS and then whining about being called what they are: HOMOPHOBIC. If a white person were to vote to take away African-American's right to marry, you can be DARN SURE not ONE SINGLE PERSON would have a problem labeling this person a racist--and rightfully so.


  • Name: Jeramy
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 12:15 PM
    Hometown: Montreal, Quebec

    Comment:

    Correction to my last post: The line " I support Prop 8 and I supported Obama because I felt those were the right choices for me" should actually say "I supported a NO on Prop 8 and I supported Obama because I felt those were the right choices for me"


  • Name: Jeramy
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 11:15 AM
    Hometown: Montreal, Quebec

    Comment:

    Wow what a heading! If only there existed black gays... But wait they do exist just like there exists gays who voted Yes; gay republicans and gay white men in South Africa who supported -and still support- Apartheid. Surprising? Not really... I have seen this incredible denial that gay blacks do exist other than in the realm of the "straight big black stud" who arrives to satisfy their white partners in gay fiction or porn. We cannnot continue to just lump people into categories based on race, gender or sexuality. People are free to vote anyway they choose and should not be chastised because they didn't vote the way you wanted them to. I support Prop 8 and I supported Obama because I felt those were the right choices for me. Not voting for Obama does not make you racist and voting Yes on Prop 8 does not make you homophobic. It's called exercising your personal choice


  • Name: scott
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 10:36 AM
    Hometown: Garden Grove

    Comment:

    Still. Other Pastors that supported proposition 8 are as follows: Phillip Goudeaux Calvary Christian Center Richard Braxton Plumas Lake Fred Simpkins Clear Voice Ministries Don Proctor Impact Church Richard Prasad Zion Global Outreach David Gray Bible Fellowship Community Church David Audrusyok Spring of Life Roy Larry Sure House of Faith Garth Buckle Tree of Life Bill Krause Family Community Church Alex Flores Life Changing Reality Christian Center Joel Pappas Oasis Christian Mission Center Ronnie Walton Jubilare David Foster Greater Grace Tillman Wade Unity Baptist Jimmie Fazil New Direction


  • Name: scott
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 10:31 AM
    Hometown: Garden Grove

    Comment:

    Here some more churches that supported Prop 8: Pastor John Mendez Min Alice Gier Dr. Delores Jones Pastor Robert Bolden Pastor Robert Cummings Min. Gail Riley Pres Daniel y Susana Torres Vision De Futuroag Pastor Mario Medio Mision Cristiana Int. Netz Gomez Houses of Light Min. Henry Lein Christian Mission Pastor Carleton Lincoln The Dwelling Place Reverend Dr. Raul Pacheco FCCI Ministries Dan Herron Zoe Kingdom Seeker Min. Leonard Radomskiy World Outreach House of Prayer Tran M. Lewis Jr. Full Gospel COGIC Lydia Gutierrez Minister Terrance Richmond Calvary Christian Center Pastor David Gray Bible Fellowship Community Church


  • Name: scott
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 10:28 AM
    Hometown: Garden Grove

    Comment:

    Reverend, here is a partial list of black churchs that supported Prop 8. Need I say more? In total, well over a thousand individual congregations in Greater Los Angeles were represented in the respected group which stood in solidarity for YES on Prop 8. The ministers gathered, represented both African American and Latino congregations throughout Southern California, and the support of 3 million faithful followers. Ministers in attendance were as follows: PASTOR NAME CHURCH NAME Bishop Frank Stewart Zoe Christian Fellowship-LA Pastor Craig Hays Crenshaw Christian Center Pastor Ed Smith Zoe Christian Fellowship-Whittier Dr. BAM Crawford Bible Enrichment Fellowship International Center


  • Name: philip
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 9:52 AM
    Hometown: West Hollywood, CA

    Comment:

    "yes we can" and "change we can believe" are nothing more than glossy slogans!


  • Name: thelea
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 4:38 AM
    Hometown: nyc

    Comment:

    This is worth repeating. Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted? Someone dug into the data and found that we're just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The truth is, I have heard that Prop 8 passed because of Republican support. 82% of Republicans admitted to supporting the proposition. They were not the ones who came out to vote for Obama. You can use numbers to prove that I am dead and writing this from the other side. Polls are fallible.


  • Name: thelea
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 4:29 AM
    Hometown: nyc

    Comment:

    Rather than be upset at the phantom African-American menace, fight like hell. I cannot believe that these larger groups who came out in droves to craft and fund this legislation get a pass and Blacks are being targeted for the blame game. There is no right wing black conspiracy against gay Americans. When you tried to align your struggle with that of Blacks you inherited their enemies. These same enemies are now trying to pit one against the other because they fear the combined numbers of both. Even if Blacks stayed home it would have passed because the extreme religious right and republicans would have raised the dead to get them to vote for it. They funded that campaign, not Blacks.


  • Name: thelea
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 4:23 AM
    Hometown: nyc

    Comment:

    I am upset about this erroneous finger pointing at African-Americans regarding Proposition 8. Why are you so quick to believe whatever you hear? If someone told me 70 percent of gay people voted against Obama my first thought would be, I don't believe it! This political year was fraught with right wing lies. These right wing religious extremists are trying to deflect their responsibility for Proposition 8 to Black people and Black churches.Bear that in mind. "Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California's largest, has also endorsed the measure.


  • Name: Tom Kidd
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 3:17 AM
    Hometown: Decatur, Illinois

    Comment:

    Sorry, darlin', but to paraphrase In Living Color's Homey the Clown, "Tommy don't play that!" African-Americans (and Latinos, too) SHOULD KNOW BETTER. Am I a racist? Absolutely not. But I caugh of bunch of y'all in the down-low, and yer gettin' the stink-eye from me, and rightly so. I've STOPPED all furthur financial funding to Barack Obama. I'm gonna be funding my own from here on out, and everyone else is gettin' kicked to the curb!


  • Name: Ann M
    Date posted: 2008-11-13 12:13 AM
    Hometown: Ashland

    Comment:

    I do not live in CA but there was a racially divisive ballot measure in my state (which thankfuly failed.) If they had polled to see how the LGBT community voted I have strong reason to believe we would have some explaining to do to. I know that the majority of my friends who tend to be more activist oriented voted against it, but in the rural areas that surround my little liberal hamlet, I know many gays that voted for it despite having it pointed out the measure was discriminatory. So, all communities have uncomfortable truths to confront. While anger and hurt are appropriate ways to respond initially, we have realize they are not helpful long term and re-strategize.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 9:49 PM
    Hometown: Buffalo, NY

    Comment:

    This is the best piece I have read on Prop. 8 since the election.


  • Name: Justin
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 9:32 PM
    Hometown: L.A.

    Comment:

    I agree that there are many forces which doomed us from winning this on a popular vote. No matter how hard anyone did or didn't try, the majority is just not ready for gay marriage. The right-wing also sunk millions into the effort here in CA which they didn't need to do in other states. Throw in a few scare tactics, mobilize the fundamentalist thinkers and they got success.


  • Name: Michael
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 8:32 PM
    Hometown: Fresno

    Comment:

    Blacks were decieved by the Yes on 8 campaign, as were many others. The No on 8 group ran a piss poor campaign. I know where I live the Yes on 8 ran at least 20 radio/TV ads for each one the No on 8 ran. No on 8 didn't even get on Television until mid September. Since the money spent on both campaigns were about equal, I really want to know where my donations went!


  • Name: Rich
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 8:00 PM
    Hometown: Reno, NV

    Comment:

    Apparently I am a racist because I believed that, based on the discrimination they have suffered, African Americans would be less likely to discriminate against others. I can't comprehend how 70% of African Americans in a liberal state could vote to enshrine discrimination in the constitution. "White Queer Outrage" - No. Shock and dismay - yes. Based on my prejudice of African Americans - this should not be possible, but I've been proven wrong.


  • Name: Jack Burke
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 7:36 PM
    Hometown: North Hollywood

    Comment:

    Blacks voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8. It's not fingerpointing or scapegoating; it's a fact. Blacks, especially black women, didn't "disappoint" us; they stabbed us in the back. Gays have long supported blacks. But when the time came to return the favor, blacks chose not to. The demonstrations should be rerouted from the Mormon and Catholic churches to the AME and black Southern Baptist churches, where these traitors worship. These are the hearts we need to reach. Seniors, Catholics, fundamentalists, Mormons and blacks need to learn that Jesus never said a word about homosexuality. The Old Testament condemnations of homosexuality occur in the same context as eating shrimp and masturbating. Boswell's exposure of misinformation about gays should be distributed to all the bastions of Yes on 8: Senior centers, black, fundamentalist, Mormon and Catholic churches. Blacks aren't off the hook because they've been oppressed. Instead, they should be ashamed.


  • Name: Michael Harwood
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 7:06 PM
    Hometown: New York, NY

    Comment:

    While it is counterproductive to place blame and name scapegoats, we need to be AWARE of those who voted in favor of Prop 8 - whatever their religious beliefs or the color of their skin. The next step will be to EDUCATE Prop 8's supporters so that we can ensure victory for marriage equality in the future.


  • Name: Ryan
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 6:13 PM
    Hometown: Toronto, Ontario

    Comment:

    The counter-argument coming from the black community (gay or straight) is completely counter-productive. Their charge that the gay movement suffers from a white-bias and is therefore inherently racist is ABSURD, and to say that the gay community did not do enough to fight Prop 8 is just offensive. Why would progressive blacks do this? By charging gays with racism, you are making it even more difficult to do outreach in the black community. Black homophobia isn't going to go away if black gays are calling white gays racist. Gay activists look to the black civil rights movement for inspiration, and white gays voted for Obama by a much larger margin that white straights. Being frustrated with black voters (the 7 in 10 that voted to take away rights) is not the same as being prejudice.


  • Name: Lamont
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:55 PM
    Hometown: Louisville, KY

    Comment:

    "And while it is true that the white LGBTQ community needs to work on its racism, white privilege, and single-issue platform that thwart all efforts for coalition-building with both straight and queer communities of color, the African-American community needs to work on its homophobia" Reverend I take issue with your statement above and have to say that your bigotry is showing. I'm a Black Gay man of some years and have too many friends White, Black and Asain who have given time and money to fight for all GLBT person's rights. I am also ashamed of my Black Heteroseual brothers and sisters who voted for this measure. I'm afraid too many have either forgotten what it was like to live discrimination daily or have never experienced it. They contributed heavily to the passage of this measure. Take that 70% YES vote and make it 70% NO vote and it would have been a different story.


  • Name: Lamont
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:55 PM
    Hometown: Louisville, KY

    Comment:

    "And while it is true that the white LGBTQ community needs to work on its racism, white privilege, and single-issue platform that thwart all efforts for coalition-building with both straight and queer communities of color, the African-American community needs to work on its homophobia" Reverend I take issue with your statement above and have to say that your bigotry is showing. I'm a Black Gay man of some years and have too many friends White, Black and Asain who have given time and money to fight for all GLBT person's rights. I am also ashamed of my Black Heteroseual brothers and sisters who voted for this measure. I'm afraid too many have either forgotten what it was like to live discrimination daily or have never experienced it. They contributed heavily to the passage of this measure. Take that 70% YES vote and make it 70% NO vote and it would have been a different story.


  • Name: Hadley Rille
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:46 PM
    Hometown: Lunaville City

    Comment:

    I'm also getting quite pissed at those who say the gay community didn't work hard enough. HARD ENOUGH??? I'm sorry, but you're living in a fantasy land if you think that 20, or 100, or 10,000 more of us telephoning people would have made a difference. This wasn't an issue where people were undecided - the voters had already made up their minds. But hey - YOU GO RIGHT ON DELUDING YOURSELVES. I know you have to blame this on someone, and your Political Correctness won't allow you to place the blame where it NEEDS to reside (Christian bigots and Redneck Homophobes), so you go right ahead and point your fingers at your brothers and sisters if you think that'll make you feel better and maintain your PC "superiority". HEY - here's an even better idea - let's stop the bickering and get back to fighting this issue in the Courts.


  • Name: Ben
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:43 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    While it's true that Blacks make up 6% of the population in California, they represented 10% of the voters on November 4. DO THE MATH. 10 million people voted on Proposition 8. That means 1 million Blacks voted on that measure. If 70% of them voted for 8, that means that 700,000 Blacks voted for it. If they had voted based on their population figures - 6% of 10 million would be 600,000. 70% of that figure is 430,000. The difference by their population figures vs. their voting record is just about enough to make the difference in the outcome of Proposition 8. Why is it that there isn't a Black writer out there expressing embarrassment at how his/her community voted on Proposition 8? They are all defending the vote and trying to deflect the blame. Blacks like to cry out when they feel they have been wronged, but when they are the wrongdoers, they don't like it when the finger is pointed at them.


  • Name: Art M.
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:38 PM
    Hometown: SF,CA,USA

    Comment:

    The shock and outrage isn't that some redneck is a homophobe, Ms. Reverend Lady. We fully expected the entire Central Valley and Orange County parts of California to be steeped in homophobia and ignorance. What we did NOT expect was for another minority group that has experienced discrimination - and exactly THE SAME TYPE of discrimination, to not feel empathy and to vote the way they did. I'm sorry that you can't see that. I'm sorry you can't see the complexity of that logical reasoning. I'm sorry that my own gay brothers and sisters who've yammered the same nonsense as you have can't see that. I don't expect much out of poor white trash, but I expect a HELL of a lot more out of a fellow minority.


  • Name: Rich
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 5:02 PM
    Hometown: Reno

    Comment:

    The 70% of African-Americans who voted for Prop 8 should be ashamed, as should everyone who's harmed anyone by denying equality. If all this attention is making bigots of every race uncomfortable by exposing their intolerance - good! The bigots are making excuses and blaming the victims - they might convince themselves but they're not convincing me.


  • Name: Phil
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:58 PM
    Hometown: Albuquerque New Mexico

    Comment:

    Has it occurred to anyone that perhaps gays were doomed to lose on Prop 8, not matter how hard we fought fo it? Over 30 states have already stated that marriage is between a man and a woman. Why would California be different? Perhaps the vote was closer in California, but it still represents a big loss. Those who are laying the blame on the No on 8 campaign and on the gay community itself don't seem to have stopped to realize that California was acting just as most other states have. Two states have marriage (Massachusetts and Connecticut) but neither state got it through a vote of the people. Our time is coming, but it looks as if we're not there yet. And it is not going to be easy so long as large groups continue to oppose us on marriage. The Black vote was significant. It cannot be ignored, and neither can the involvement of the Mormon and Catholic churches and others who claim religion made them do it.


  • Name: C
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:53 PM
    Hometown: Austin

    Comment:

    I think most gay people assumed that if the Democratic Party (which is supposed to represent gay people) swept the presidency, the house, and the senate, then we would retain our civil rights in California. It never occurred to us that large numbers of democrats (mostly black and hispanic democrats) would turn around and strip gay people of our civil rights. This is a failure of the Democratic Party, which should have made it clear to black people that stripping another minority of civil rights is NOT ACCEPTABLE. And the party should offer to refund donations made by gay people. In one paragraph, you say that letting bigots vote on gay rights is "ethically bankrupt", but then you try to excuse the african american community for thier 70% ethically bankrupt vote. There are no excuses. And why on earth would white gay people want to do 'outreach' to a group that just helped strip us (and gay black people) of our civil rights.


  • Name: Robert Goodman, M.S.
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:52 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    This makes me LIVID!!! African-American are not being "scapegoated" here. They voted 70% AGAINST US!!! This is far greater than ANY OTHER GROUP!!! I am sick and tired of people saying we should stop "pointing fingers" and "laying blame." What we should be doing is what we have been doing: HOLDING THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. Also, I recent deeply the notion that we should "get proactive" on this issue. I have been working my ass off for 47 years to get through to all religious fundamentalist on this. This is not an easy issue. MANY, MANY people have been working on this issue FOR YEARS. Nobody wants to punish our African-American brothers and sisters who supported us--but we do want to HOLD THOSE ACCOUNTABLE WHO STABBED US IN THE BACK!!!


  • Name: Joseph
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:39 PM
    Hometown: Montgomery, AL

    Comment:

    (Cont from below) What needs to be well remembered is the fact that the Obama campaign itself is to blame for the passage of Prop 8, no matter how much the Dems or Obama want to deny it. Obama did NOT oppose Prop 8 strongly enough BUT he (and the Dems) did urge a stronger turnout from the Black community. Obama NEVER accepted same-sex marriage (he said so himself--it was against his "religious beliefs") and from his spending time with the Evangelical Black community (the Donnie McClurkin flap, anyone?), he admitted his plan to "reach out" to Evangelical Blacks. Obama was the one who talked about "respecting differences" with Evangelical Blacks, and we saw how well that turned out. Many Evangelical Black ministers were quoted as saying they didn't like Obama's social positions but they felt it was more important to elect the Black man.


  • Name: Joseph
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:30 PM
    Hometown: Montgomery, AL

    Comment:

    Scott, I don't know what type of fuzzy math you use, but 53% is NOT a "large margin" by ANY reasonable understanding. Especially, when compared to 70%. The fact IS that, despite African-Americans ONLY making up 6.2% of the California population (as the Rev Monroe noted), their numbers are reported as making up 10% of the total electorate on 11/4/08 (there's a possibility that the electorate was based on skin tone, rather than "census definition"--a voter might LOOK "black" but define himself as "biracial" for census purposes, but I digress...). Of every 10,000 total voters, 1000 were Black with 700 voting for Prop 8. (Latinos, by comparison, would have 1800 voters with only 934--53%--voting for Prop 8. Yes, that meant more total Latinos voted for Prop 8, but the Latino population is larger.) (Continued......)


  • Name: Robert Goodman, M.S.
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:05 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    This makes me LIVID!!! African-American are not being "scapegoated" here. They voted 70% AGAINST US!!! This is far greater than ANY OTHER GROUP!!! I am sick and tired of people saying we should stop "pointing fingers" and "laying blame." What we should be doing is what we have been doing: HOLDING THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. Also, I recent deeply the notion that we should "get proactive" on this issue. I have been working my ass off for 47 years to get through to all religious fundamentalist on this. This is not an easy issue. MANY, MANY people have been working on this issue FOR YEARS. Nobody wants to punish our African-American brothers and sisters who supported us--but we do want to HOLD THOSE ACCOUNTABLE WHO STABBED US IN THE BACK!!!


  • Name: Robert Goodman, M.S.
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:04 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    This makes me LIVID!!! African-American are not being "scapegoated" here. They voted 70% AGAINST US!!! This is far greater than ANY OTHER GROUP!!! I am sick and tired of people saying we should stop "pointing fingers" and "laying blame." What we should be doing is what we have been doing: HOLDING THESE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE. Also, I recent deeply the notion that we should "get proactive" on this issue. I have been working my ass off for 47 years to get through to all religious fundamentalist on this. This is not an easy issue. MANY, MANY people have been working on this issue FOR YEARS. Nobody wants to punish our African-American brothers and sisters who supported us--but we do want to HOLD THOSE ACCOUNTABLE WHO STABBED US IN THE BACK!!!


  • Name: David Waston
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 4:02 PM
    Hometown: Seattle

    Comment:

    The other side of the Coin Reverend would be how would you like to have a state over turn the 13th Amendment? It took 1995 to fully have it ratified by every state- the last state hold out being controlled by the Southern Baptist church hopping that they could overturn the 13th Amendment. So when you say we should not blame blacks, of all people they should remember what it’s like to be second class citizens. Oh! By the way: You might want have a chat with that African American GOP mouth piece- She was claiming on Larry King that it was the African Baptist Churches that gave the Yes on Prop 8 the victory.


  • Name: Ronald
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 3:41 PM
    Hometown: Asheville

    Comment:

    Elections are won in the margin. Why else would bot Mc Cain and Obama spend so much time in Ohio? From now on I would encourage gay business owners to hire only 30% of the blacks who applied for a job, regardless of their qualifications. Unbelievable how blacks can simply ignore another group in this way!


  • Name: Cindy
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 3:37 PM
    Hometown: Rancho Cucamonga

    Comment:

    It's just too bad there weren't more people rallying and donated to the cause before it was voted on. I was appalled at the comments from people who were opposed to donating their time or money because they just knew we had it won. Then there were the others that said if we lost the courts would change it. It will take lots of time in the courts to get this changed and in the meantime there will be couples who will not live long enough to see it, or family members who live long enough to make it to their wedding. Put the blame where it belongs ...... THE GLBT PEOPLE WHO DIDN"T GIVE A SHIT BEFORE THE VOTE!!!!!


  • Name: Dave
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 2:42 PM
    Hometown: San Francisco

    Comment:

    I will admit, I was right there placing blame on others (when I noticed the exit polling numbers) - but I have since come to realize that the blame for the success of prop HATE rests solely on the LGBT community. Certainly we owe great thanks to the many that worked tirelessly to defeat it - but it was far too few of us. Let's face it - many of us have grown lazy and complacent... many of us did NOTHING to help… some of us felt this wasn't all that important. The No on 8 campaign started out WEAK and finished strong but it was too little - too LATE. Now we are stunned, we mourn and we are outraged. Perhaps this is the wakeup call that we needed. This fight is not over... and our rights will be restored when we wake up and stop waiting for everything to be handed to us. The rally has begun with even more this Saturday (jointheimpact.wetpaint.com)... we need get off our a$$es and fix this.


  • Name: Vic
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 2:25 PM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, NY

    Comment:

    So, all gay people are white now? How is your comment not racist. I understand we're all led to think in little boxes by the media. But most people belong to several categories at once. They're are Mexican lesbians with graduate degrees who live in the south. How about the fact that many people without college degrees voted for Prop 8. Should we target people with GEDs as a group?


  • Name: christine moore
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 2:20 PM
    Hometown: encino, CA

    Comment:

    Reverend, I would have loved it if you had cited examples of white racism within the gay community, as I have not seen any evidence of that in my 20 years of being an openly gay white person. I think those of us who are outraged by blacks voting 70/30 in favor of Prop 8 are equally outraged by conservative whites voting for it. The difference is that we expected it from conservative whites, but we thought that blacks would understand more than anyone what it feels like to be denied basic civil rights. I understand that many blacks oppose gay marriage because of their religion, but I am not any more sympathetic to that reasoning than I would be to the reasoning of one who opposed interracial marriage because of their religious beliefs. I am sure that if there had been a proposition on the ballot banning interracial marriage, Obama would have been out here quite a bit campaigning against it.


  • Name: scott
    Date posted: 2008-11-12 1:24 PM
    Hometown: Garden Grove

    Comment:

    Reverend Irene, while I respect your views, you are living in a fantasy land universe as it relates to this issue. Please don't insult the intelligence of gay men and woman who can think for themselves. When is our community going to face the fact that we are at the bottom of the food chain when it compared to other minority communities? It is unfortunate, but true. You cannot, I repeat, cannot BUNDLE the gay community in with other racial communities. FACT: the majority of these groups don't like us. Yes, the mormon church financially backed this rhetoric of hate big time, but statistics have shown that almost 70% of the Black vote voted against our right to marry as well. Will we ignore this group as well, or cower behind political correctness just cause blacks are a minority group like ourselves? (Hispanics also voted against us by a large margin-53 %). Its time for the gay community to target all communities involved in taking our marriage rights away.


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