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01/10/09-01/12/09

Prop. 8 Exit Polling of African-Americans Way Off, Experts Say

Prop. 8 Exit Polling of African-Americans Way Off, Experts Say

A new study on California’s Proposition 8 voting trends released Tuesday found that far fewer African-Americans voted to pass the gay marriage ban than the 70% suggested by exit polling and concluded that race was not the most significant factor affecting people’s vote for or against marriage equality.

After conducting in-depth analysis of election returns from five key California counties and using census data to estimate the racial makeup of the voters in those counties, researchers found that between 57% and 59% of African-Americans voted in favor of Proposition 8, which amended the state's constitution to prohibit same-sex marriage.

"This is a far cry from the [National Exit Poll] estimate,” said Kenneth Sherrill of Hunter College, one of the lead authors of the study.

Sherrill also noted that four pre-election polls put black support for the antigay ballot initiative anywhere between 41% and 58%. “While that’s quite a range, none venture above 58%,” he said. “On this basis alone, the NEP estimate of 70% would appear to be an outlier.”

A comparison of the Prop. 8 data with that of polling after the Knight Initiative, a 2000 measure that prohibited gay marriage in California by statute (rather than constitutional amendment), showed overall movement toward support of marriage equality across almost every demographic group “with the only holdouts being Republicans, conservatives, and those born before World War II,” said Patrick Egan of New York University, another lead author of the report. “Although Proposition 8 was victorious, I think the real story is that California voters have nevertheless shifted dramatically toward support for same-sex marriage.” In fact, the study found support for marriage equality increasing in nearly every demographic group by about one percent each year since 2000.

Egan and Sherrill also concluded that age, religiosity, party identification, and ideology had more of an effect on whether voters backed Prop. 8 than any other factors. For instance, the rate of support for the initiative among African Americans and whites was nearly the same for those who attended church services regularly.

Perhaps surprisingly, the study also revealed that partisanship and ideology trumped the fact of knowing someone who is openly LGBT. About two-thirds of the state’s self-identified conservatives knew someone who was gay and about 4 out of five of them voted for the measure – the same exact ratio of conservatives who voted for Prop. 8 but didn’t know an openly LGBT person. Republicans demonstrated a similar pattern, with about four out of five of them voting to pass the ban regardless of whether they knew anyone who was out or not.

“This leads us to the conclusion that at least in terms of marriage equality, opposition to our rights isn’t personal, it’s ideological and partisan,” Sherrill said. Though he called the resistance among Republicans and conservatives "implacable," Sherrill added, "Mitigating that opposition is the fact that California is becoming less Republican and less conservative. In fact, hard-core opposition to such things as gay marriage may be costing Republicans the support of younger voters." (Kerry Eleveld, Advocate.com)

Keywords:  California marriage  Prop 8 
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Reader Comments

These comments are reproduced as written by visitors to this Web site. They have not been edited for content, grammar, or spelling. The viewpoints appearing here are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion or views of advocate.com, The Advocate, or its affiliates.

  • Name: John G
    Date posted: 2009-01-12 9:46 AM
    Hometown: New York City

    Comment:

    Tee-Dee, Spoken like a very young person.


  • Name: TeeDee
    Date posted: 2009-01-11 12:09 AM
    Hometown: San Luis Obispo

    Comment:

    When interracial marriage was legalized by the US Supreme Court in 1967 (Loving v. Virginia), public opinion was overwhelmingly against the ruling - something like 85% against. That was all about maintaining white supremacy, but now we have a president born of such a marriage. When the original initiative prohibiting marriage between gays passed in California in 2000, public opinion was about 65% against equality. A few short years and it's down to 52% against equality, and the fight is really all about religious supremacy. So whether we win our rights because there's really no other way to interpret the 14th amendment or because public opinion shifts a few more points in the right direction, WE WILL WIN. Religion will adapt, as it always does.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2009-01-10 1:36 AM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, NY

    Comment:

    This fixation on the African American vote misses the point. African Americans comprise 6% of the population of California. Had every single African American stayed home on Nov. 4, Prop 8 still would have passed. That's the real issue. One thing we need to ask ourselves is how many young people stayed home on election day, including young LGBT people. We need to ask ourselves why so many people voted in support of Prop 8, white, black, yellow, Republican, Democrats, whatever. And we need to ask ourselves why we dropped the ball in the no to prop 8 campaign. In other words, is is possible that the real people we have to blame are ourselves?


  • Name: Roger Burr
    Date posted: 2009-01-09 5:01 PM
    Hometown: Marble Hill, MO

    Comment:

    Please brothers, of ALL races and ethnic groups. We all have an opinion on this matter and each persons opinion is important. But let's keep it civil. If not, we will be doing EXACTLY what the 'christian' right-wingnuts want us to do: collapse amid internal strife. Their policy is one of 'divide and conquer'. Let's make sure they can't do it to US. Thank you.


  • Name: Justin
    Date posted: 2009-01-09 2:05 PM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Comment:

    Hey pedro, Like Dave, you need to get off you high horse and stop with the nonsense. Were do you get off telling blacks about discrimination. When was the the last time that Latinos admited their own racism AMIGO!?


  • Name: Justin
    Date posted: 2009-01-09 1:57 PM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Comment:

    Hey Dave, get off your high horse and get back down to goddamn reality. Do you really believe that blacks are the only group dening your rights? What about Whites?(republicans, Mormons, rual etc) Latinos, asians. If you don't have anything intelligent to say then SHUT UP!!!


  • Name: Justin
    Date posted: 2009-01-09 1:40 PM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, N.Y.

    Comment:

    So, true Tom. As for frank and his views on homophobia in the Black community? Why don't you with the racism in the LGBT community first then we can go from there.


  • Name: John G
    Date posted: 2009-01-09 10:34 AM
    Hometown: New York City

    Comment:

    Examined carefully, the Hunter College "study" is really a combination of tortured reasoning and wishful thinking. To obscure the central role of African American voters in the passage of Prop 8 may feel good to liberals but it contributes nothing toward finding an actionable strategy for the future. The real questions include: how much of the overwhelmingly anti-gay black vote can be persuaded otherwise? Is a better tactic to energize a broader coalition of voters who are not driven by religious beliefs? Should Obama be called on his opposition to marriage equality? Above all, what are the actions that will re-shape this debate, not just paste over the wounds with specious statistics that, even at their most optimistic, paint a pretty dismal picture of the future of gay rights in the African American community and culture? Only when marriage activists face up to the realities of what happened in California on November 4 will a viable strategy emerge.


  • Name: Dean
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 7:17 PM
    Hometown: Corunna, Michigan

    Comment:

    Thank you, Lawrence. I was certainly uninformed about the NEP. It's scary to think that one organization holds so much power. I also took your suggestion to heart, and downloaded the study. I still see flaws. Only 1,066 respondents? Not all respondents AA? Personally, I believe California's gay community fell victim to a sort of "Bradley Effect". I say this because, while it is believable that exit polling was flawed on Nov. 4, it is unbelievable that only the data concerning AAs was off. Frankly, it is more believable that AA respondents gave inaccurate information to pollsters before and after the election, but in their euphoria on election day, gave pollsters the truth.


  • Name: James
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 3:25 PM
    Hometown: Santa Ana, CA

    Comment:

    WOW John, that was impressive. You started out making a valid point, and had me on your side. I even thought about posting wtih my concurrence. Then you managed to completely change the topic - demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of the Israeli-Hamas conflict. However, at the end, I'm glad you had the introspection to conclude that you lack enlightenment. I would agree.


  • Name: John
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 2:57 PM
    Hometown: Rhode Island

    Comment:

    You would think that experiencing prejudice and discrimination would make one not do the same to others, but it doesn’t seem to make a difference. As a Latino who supports the rights of undocumented immigrants, I am always amazed when some African Americans support the rhetoric against undocumented immigrants even though its verbatim the rhetoric used against them (sucking up resources because they are all having babies on welfare, driving Cadillac Escalades, and predisposed to commit crime). Experience does not seem to equal enlightenment or trump fear. Whether a person is gay or not doesn’t make a difference as to whether that person - makes fun of fat people, or crosses the street to avoid a passing by a group of black people. I’m not immune either, with Israel provoking the Palestinians through isolation and starvation so they can eradicate Hamas, a democratically elected government, and brutally punishing the people who elected them - I’m starting to hate Jews.


  • Name: Jeff
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 8:18 AM
    Hometown: Cincinnati

    Comment:

    Lawrence, while they are respected researchers, there are problems with this particular study. Indeed, if you look at the citations, you'll see Dr. Achen, who is widely quoted as criticizing ecological regression. He has said that it is "fraught with pitfalls." However, the authors of the study chose to use ecological regression. So we have to realize that their results are questioned by the very reserach they cite. The major problem I see is that population categories for the vote are derived from the population categories of the census data. In a normal election, this would be a reasonable assumption; however in 2008, it has been widely reported that younger voters and African Americans came out in force to vote for Obama. As a result, their census driven percentages which are used in calculations are questionable. The data should have been changed to reflect these differences, but no one can really say how much they should be changed.


  • Name: frank
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 4:49 AM
    Hometown: Jackson, CA

    Comment:

    Are African Americans responsible for the passage of Prop 8? Of course not. What I'm not reading about or hearing about is now many gay people did not go to the polls at all or voted for Prop. 8. It's not even brought up. Be that as it may, I can tell you that I would NEVER vote against the civil rights of another group, including African Americans and of all the groups, I am shocked that those who have been in that position only recognize discrimination when it's directed at them. When I see black people polled on how they voted offer "Well, that's just what I believe." as the excuse for voting yes on Prop 8, all I can ask is what kind of lameass excuse is that??? If there is racism in the gay community, and I can tell you that it is not tolerated by anyone I know, let's look at it and deal with it. But we should also not shy away from examining the homophobia in the black community either.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2009-01-08 1:36 AM
    Hometown: Charleston

    Comment:

    And how many whites voted against Prop 8?


  • Name: Tom B.
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 11:14 PM
    Hometown: New Jersey

    Comment:

    Blaming the black community is not going to win us marriage equality. Regardless of whether the study is correct or not, it looks as though we need to focus more energy and money into religious communities and minority communities. Reacting with racism is not helping - all minority groups must ban together for their rights, and a wedge between the gay and black communities is counter-productive.


  • Name: Lawrence
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 10:39 PM
    Hometown: Oakland, CA

    Comment:

    Dean, Jason, Pedro,Dave, National Election Pool (NEP) did the original exit poll. It’s a consortium comprised of CNN, AP & others. That probably means the CNN & AP results you saw were pulling from the same data as the NEP. Re: "some ambiguous study done by unknown Experts in Guesstimation", google “NGLTF, egan, sherrill” - you’ll see an option to download the report. Check last page for credentials on authors, and do your own research. They’re highly respected in their fields. They used the eminent David Binder to conduct the survey of voters. Also, read the study to learn about its methodology. It was far more rigorous than the NEP study. Finally, the study lists other polls taken before the elections, highlighting that the NEP poll was a serious outlier, inconsistent with other polls. Dave, if you’re still blaming the passage of Prop 8 on People of Color, you have NOT read any analysis the last two months – and your misguided views are perpetuating divisions.


  • Name: Aundaray Guess
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 9:42 PM
    Hometown: New York City

    Comment:

    As a gay black man I'm not surprised at the racist attitudes of the gay white community. If you wonder why a person of color doesn't come out it's clear that not only will they probably lose their family but the gay white community will also offer their own form of rejection. We are unfortunate to have the straight hair of Latino's who are accepted, yet even for them they must have white features and can't look like they just crossed the border. In the gay black community we are facing the increase of AIDS, racism, socio-economic barriers such as discrimination, inadequate health care and yes i'll admit, black on black violence. If i had to make a list of importance, why would marriage be on top. You don't care so we don't care.


  • Name: Phil
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 8:44 PM
    Hometown: New York City

    Comment:

    None of those comments are racist; rather, they're pointing out the hypocrisy that a majority of black people voted AGAINST civil rights for a minority but complain that their rights are being violated. It seems to say that blacks can be homophobic but criticising them for their actions is racist. I'm sorry, but even this study concludes that a majority of African-Americans voted for Prop 8.


  • Name: Steve
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 7:11 PM
    Hometown: San Fran

    Comment:

    After reading some of these responses, it goes to show you that our Queer Community needs to work on acknowledging our racism, our eagerness to blame, and all the other human traits that our hetero counterparts have. The Prop 8 campaign folks did a lousy job in outreaching to the communities of color and the rural parts of California. You dont send volunteers to the Castro and WeHo to educate folks on Prop 8!


  • Name: Harold P.
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 6:00 PM
    Hometown: Bendover, ME

    Comment:

    OK. Phew! It's MUCH better that only SIX out of ten black people hate us than having SEVEN out of ten black people hate us!!! I can go to bed at night not fearing black people trampling our civil rights now. That ONE PERSON really makes up for a WHOLE LOT!!! By golly, I think I'm going to go out and hug the first black person I come across, I'm so giddy at this news!


  • Name: Dave
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 5:19 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    This "new study" seems to be a fraud, designed to get those who voted for Prop. 8 off the hook. Communities of color daily preach hatred of gays. People of color are angry at gay's civil rights progress seeing it as taking "their" slice of pie. We hear this continually, esp. from racist gays such as Jasmyne Cannick, Keith Boykin, Pam Spaulding, etc. Prop. 8 passed because people of color went to the polls in vast amounts to vote for skin color and attack another minority: gays. Case closed.


  • Name: Roger Burr
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 3:27 PM
    Hometown: Marble Hill, MO

    Comment:

    NEWS FLASH.... Regardless of WHO did or didn't vote for Prop. 8, the unalterable fact remains; IT PASSED!! Hindsight is always 20/20. What we need to concentrate on now, is how we are going to undo the damage. Our only hope for California, is in the hands of the courts. It is unconscionable to allow majority rule in matters of human rights. We are ...'endowed by our CREATOR with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. If by 'Creator' the founding fathers meant God; then who are the electorate, as mere mortals, to abrogate a right to which HE endowed us?


  • Name: Kendra Stuckey
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 3:27 PM
    Hometown: Hammond Indiana

    Comment:

    Everyone knows someone who is Gay or Bisexual. If people are stupid enough or shall I say gullible enough to believe there is only 10% of the population that is Gay, they are sadly mistaken. What about the closet people? It's beyond sad that Black people are willing to discriminate against anyone. After all the discrimination we have suffered in the world. I am ALL FOR Gay marriage. Discrimination is an ugly word to me.


  • Name: Pedro
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 2:49 PM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    People LIE about knowing a gay person. There is no way more than 30% of the population KNOWS a gay person in real life. I believe the CNN and AP polls were correct or close to correct in the actual numbers of black voters casting their ballots for discrimination. I think this survey is an attempt to rollover to blacks who do not want to take responsibility for the overwhelming anti-gay hatred in their community and instead want to blame gay people for Prop 8.


  • Name: torqueflite
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 11:16 AM
    Hometown: Niwot, Colorado

    Comment:

    This explains why my friend would house-sit for me and my spouse and offer us congratulations and a wedding present when we went to SF to marry...while at the same time voting Republican, reading (and believing!) the World Net Daily...a horrible site that is not only virulently anti-gay, but which stated that Obama's memoir was ghost-written by William Ayers.


  • Name: anto
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 6:02 AM
    Hometown: dublin

    Comment:

    were exit polls created by the Republicans, because like Republicans they can never be trusted, given the links between Harvey Milk, his film with the amazing Sean Penn & very hot James Franco, Prop 6 and Prop 8, those who opposed Prop 8 should have looked at/used Harvey's campaign when he defeted P6, the important thing is to keep the pressure on Politicans to repeel P8, anto


  • Name: Mike B.
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 3:44 AM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    I think the most interesting point brought up by this article is the fact that knowing an LGBT friend or family member had no change on the yes voters. So often we're told to live by quiet example; if only they "got to know us better" we could convince them otherwise. I've always thought that was bullshit, and this study seems to confirm that. Bigots are bigots, even when they're family. Screw 'em.


  • Name: Scott
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 2:45 AM
    Hometown: Sydney, Australia

    Comment:

    I do believe this study more than the exit polls. The exit polls only work to a certain degree. The accuracy on Presidential vote is sure to be good. By the time questions on prop 8 came up how sick of the questions was the respondent? By their very nature Exit Polls are rushed. CNN does not call seats on exit polls alone. There seems to be a famous election about that. The good news. The voting trend. This is a similar voting trend noted in Tasmania, Australia before homosexuality was made legal. I am sure it is similar in a lot of other places. The reason for this trend is education. When you now have programmes like Kyle XY (a family show) showing support for same sex prom partners education is having its effect. More in your face efforts will make a lot of Straights whom just don't think about this take notice. Remember Gay Liberation started with a riot in New York.


  • Name: jason
    Date posted: 2009-01-07 1:42 AM
    Hometown: seattle

    Comment:

    Also, this latest poll seems to have been done more than 2 months after the national election. I wouldn't be surprised if some in the black community were covering their tracks by responding in a way which portrays them as less intolerant than the initial polls.


  • Name: Dean
    Date posted: 2009-01-06 9:49 PM
    Hometown: Corunna, Michigan

    Comment:

    Sorry, Kerry. The CNN exit polls, and the AP exit pollsters got nearly the same results. I would definitely consider CNN and the AP more credible than some ambiguous study done by unknown Experts in Guesstimation. I mean, really, how do you "guesstimate" a vote??? Statistical models??? Pffft! As for a rift between our communities, I would have to say that it definitely exists. If members of the AA community want to hide behind their Bibles as an excuse for taking away someone's rights, that's fine.........but we've been calling that same attitude in the white community bigotry, for a loooong time. To treat it differently because it's coming from a person of color would be...... well, racist.


  • Name: Alan Pires Ferreira
    Date posted: 2009-01-06 8:00 PM
    Hometown: Belo Horizonte, MG

    Comment:

    So 57% of the blacks voted against full citizenship to homosexuals. Will they be considered gay-friendly now? Will they win a GLAAD nomination?


  • Name: Roger Anderson
    Date posted: 2009-01-06 6:38 PM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    So, instead of an exit poll of actual voters, we are going to change the focus on who is responsible by using census data to pretend we know who MIGHT have voted and how they MIGHT have cast their vote. Again, we take the seats in the back of the bus instead of responding to the reality of our world. No wonder the Republicans/conservatives walk all over us for years and years. Here is a great big clue folks - WE LOST to the Republican/conservatives - AGAIN. All these gay boys and no balls. The leadership from our community to fight prop 8 was pathetic and now we want to whitewash the results - as in "geez whiz, they screwed us over AGAIN, but there are more of them that actually like us than there were before!" What do you think this is, a Judy Garland/Mickey Rooney movie? Grow up.


  • Name: Brian
    Date posted: 2009-01-06 5:37 PM
    Hometown: Anaheim, H8

    Comment:

    It is a shame that this has driven a fake wedge between GLBT people and Arican Americans. The damn exit polls were wrong! I hope we can all come together as I think we were manipulated.


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