Don't Ask, Don't Tell Roundup

Our equality on a federal level will begin in the military and with federal employees. Once those goals are acheieved and the majority of Americans see that the world has not come to an end, then ENDA will follow. Once ENDA is a reality and armageddon does not follow, then DOMA will fall and we will have full equality. There will be a hateful backlash but we will be federally equal and protected. The haters see this as the gay agenda, but it is really just a natural progression.

Clayton you make completely reasonable points and I understand what you're saying. I'm not convinced that the US public isn't ready for ENDA. If I recall correctly, polls have shown that a majority of Americans oppose discrimination against LGB (if not T) in the workplace. Discrimination is something that a majority...gays, blacks, Latinos, women...have faced at work, and is something that even some Republicans have come out opposing, so I can't agree that ENDA doesn't resonate with people, or that it would be legislatively impossible, even if it doesn't have the posturing patriotic bullshit appeal factor. But if we are lobbying to be included in the military, we need to take a long hard look at what our military is actually doing. It is illogical and ironic to demand legal and just inclusion in a military which is illegally and unjustly massacring thousands upon thousands of poor people. DADT is not unrelated to these wars and our community should stop pretending that it is.

Ben you and I might agree that the war in Iraq was the greatest American failure since slavery and that Afghanistan might turn into Vietnam. I say that as someone in the military. But you missed my point. ENDA is not likely to pass now not because militarism has hijacked our fight for equality. ENDA and, even gay rights in general, don't seem as tangible to the average American as does DADT. It just doesn't resonate. The systemic discrimination against gays in the military, up to and decades before DADT, is probably one of the best documented, and I mean in detail, cases of FEDERAL discriminations against gays ever compiled. It has been debated publicly and privately since the 50's. The gays in the military debate has a long and prescient history that has existed since before 'gay' and 'rights' were ever joined in the same statement. If you have an animus toward American sodiers well that's ok. But to equate the repeal of this policy to mass murder is misguided.

Any citizen who wants to serve his/her country should be allowed to do so. End of discussion. No need for meetings and other discriminatory practices to keep gays in their second class status. It is frightening to see how military people think. The indoctrination every person who serves the military makes me wonder if gays aren't better off not serving. We should have the right, but gays are far more intelligent than the average serviceman (my opinion). I am not sure that one needs a lot of intelligence to do what they do. Washington needs to be totally overhauled. All I see are antiquated thinkers from past generations who look as though they are having a hard time making it from one day to the next. They are certainly not to be emulated. USA is a land of bigots who want to bully not only gays, but every group of people on the entire planet.

It makes no sense to discuss military policy while ignoring the fact that our soldiers have just killed over a million poor people for no fucking reason, and are killing hundreds more every day. In this context, DADT is saving lives. Many of the 13,000 who were discharged would have been killed, not to mention the uncounted thousands they would have killed had they been permitted to serve. I am thankful that DADT has prevented our community from being more complicit in these massacres than we already are. It is telling that hate crimes was passed as an attachment to a military spending bill, and that in his speech, Obama addressed DADT while remaining silent on equal rights for gay civilians. Our liberation movement is being co-opted by US militarism and it disgusts me. We are supposed to be fighting for justice. How many poor people's corpses need to litter our path to equality?

Ben I don't think that ENDA is being pushed as much as DADT in part because it doesn't have as much chance politically--yet. It IS being focused on. But average, straight americans can somehow relate to DADT in a more tangible way than they can ENDA. DADT has been in the media for years, it has cost millions of $$, and even most die hard conservatives recognize that the poilicy is completely un-American. I would also add that the American military, even before DADT, especially before DADT, has a well documented record of horrific and systematic treatment of gays. The end of this policy for many is to begin the healing of wounds that run very deep. It has more to do with the history of what took place in the military well before the wars we are in now even began. If you see the current wars as illegal and immoral, then I would lay the blame at the feet of our civilian leadership. The freedoms we have now are due in no small part to our military. Gays have always been there.

Everett, thank you for your thoughtful response. I disagree with a couple of your points. We can imagine that, should DADT be repealed, more gay people would be serving in the military than otherwise. None would be thrown out, perhaps those who have been discharged would be welcomed back, and without discrimination the military would be a more attractive career choice. Now, every soldier overseas killing poor people in these corporate, for-profit wars is contributing to US imperialism, even the gay ones. Repealing DADT will therefore strengthen an American militarism which is already abhorrent to most thinking people. You say that it would be a valuable step toward eradicating discrimination nationally. Wouldn't it be better simply to focus on passing ENDA, rather than lending legitimacy to two totally illegal and inhumane wars by showcasing our willingness to participate in them?

Ben, I am a pacifist & anti-war activist & understand your concerns. I have had to think long & hard about these issues. It seems to me that anti-gay discrimination in the military in no way diminishes US imperialist violence, but that DADT powerfully reinforces & legitimizes discrimination in society at large & in all forms of employment. It places the powerful imprimatur of the federal gov't on homophobia in all the rest of American society. Ending DADT will not, in fact, strengthen American imperialism at all, but it would be a major step (front-page news all over the nation) in ending anti-gay discrimination in the totality of our national life. Ending DADT would serve to de-legitimize homophobia. Suffering anti-gay discrimination in the military is not at all the same thing as the refusal of the individual to serve state violence on grounds of conscience. Being denied the right to serve is not the same as engaging in anti-war activism. To me, the issues seem really quite separate

Perhaps the military brass just needs to get used to the idea of gay troops. I suggest that we start by forming all-lgbtq troop units that are dedicated entirely to civil disaster relief and serve within and/or alongside traditional units. Over time, the remit of the Gay Brigade would grow to include essentially all Civil Affairs activities (reconstitution of civil authority, which was never really implemented properly in Iraq due to a severe lack of qualified personnel in the reserves) and Public Affairs as well. It seems to me that this would make our military vastly more effective in saving lives, restoring social systems, and keeping the American people informed. In turn, this will lead to the Gay Brigade becoming a model for a new, more effective and ethical military focusing on responding to the needs of the downtrodden, rather than the needs of those who would tread upon them.

What I don't understand is this: why are gay people so eager to serve in our military? Our soldiers are collecting a paycheck for going to third world countries and killing poor people. Gay people should know better. Our military is not protecting and serving our citizens, our values, our freedoms. They are being hired out as mercenaries for the oil companies and other war profiteers, and I would prefer our community to play no part in it. How many poor people's corpses need to serve as the price for our equality?