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Yes Takes No: The Firestorm Over Prop 8

We thought we were winning. Until a few days ago, California’s proposed anti-gay constitutional amendment, Proposition 8, was lagging in the polls. Now they're ahead. What happened? Money, an effective ad campaign, and a passionate voter base willing to stop at nothing to get their point across: In their minds, gay marriage is simply wrong.

By Anne Stockwell

An Advocate.com exclusive posted October 7, 2008

We thought we were winning. But no.

Until a few days ago, California’s proposed anti-gay constitutional amendment, Proposition 8, was lagging in the polls. Now we’re the underdog. What happened?

No on 8 campaign leaders convened an emergency conference call with LGBT reporters on Tuesday to get the word out: Prop 8 is now ahead by four points, and if we want to win on election day, we need to flood the No on 8 campaign with money.

“We’re being very badly outspent,” said pollster Celinda Lake, who joined campaign consultant Steve Smith and Equality California’s Geoff Kors on the call. Lake attributed Prop 8’s new hot streak to a biting TV ad that premiered last week -- and to the massive media buy for that ad made possible in part by the deep pockets of the Mormon Church. “Polling tells us that their ad is really breaking through... it’s not just a base ad. It’s convincing to voters across the broad spectrum,” she said.

“It’s gonna happen, whether you like it or not!” rasps San Francisco mayor Gavin Newsom like a leering carnival barker in the pro-8 television spot. After that, a Prop 8 spokesman ticks off a list of dire consequences that California will suffer if Prop 8 goes down to defeat: “People sued over personal beliefs! Churches could lose their tax exemptions! Gay marriage taught in public schools!”

The ad’s histrionics would be funny. Except that so many voters seem to agree.

Talk with Prop 8 supporters and their anger is startling, even shocking.

All that emotion was front and center at a joint informational hearing held October 2 in Los Angeles by the state senate judiciary committee. Among the 200-odd attendees, the Yes on 8 contingent was slightly outnumbered. But they exemplified the outrage fueling the pro-8 campaign.

This Prop 8 hearing was routine. Every California ballot initiative must go through a similar public hearing on its way to election day. The panel, chaired by Sen. Ellen Corbett, comprised several senators and assembly members quizzing witnesses on both sides of the issue.

Berkeley law professor Goodwin Liu drew smiles as he addressed the accusation that, by deciding in favor of marriage equality, California’s supreme court justices crossed the line and became activist judges.

“Judicial activism,” Liu pointed out, “is used by all sides as shorthand for any decision they don’t like.” Asked if the court overturned the will of the people, Liu thought not, arguing that -- thanks to huge progress since anti-gay Prop 22 became law in 2000 -- the decision to overturn Prop 22 could be described as “majoritatian.”

Story continues on next page...

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Stockwell is Editor at Large for The Advocate

Reader Comments

These comments are reproduced as written by visitors to this Web site. They have not been edited for content, grammar, or spelling. The viewpoints appearing here are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion or views of advocate.com, The Advocate, or its affiliates.

Name: lionel
Date posted: 2008-11-12 10:54 PM
Hometown: los angeles

Comment:

It is as much a civil rights issue as polygamy, or incestuous marriage are civil rights issues. To a majority of Californians, religious values trump everything else. That is why 70% of Blacks voted YES. They obviously did not view it as a civil rights issue, and they of all groups should know a civil rights issue when they see one. The Bible says that homosexuality is an abomination. Seperation of church and state ONLY APPLIES TO CONGRESS, not to voters. A voter can cast a vote based on any reason, whether religious or secular. And as long as people read the Bible, never again will there be gay marriage in California. Remember: it's an abomination.

Name: Luanne Casli
Date posted: 2008-11-07 12:10 PM
Hometown: Kalamazoo

Comment:

Both Florida and California voted Blue and to amend their state constitutions to prevent us from getting married. Does anyone think that everyone who voted for Obama/Bidden took to heart their statements that they would not want to pass gay marriage? Oh, sure, they are much nicer about it than the Red team but the effect is the same. I'll vote for Obama and against gay marriage cuz he won't back it. Oh, yeah they both say states can if they choose to but they don't think it is a federal issue. I couldn't have votged any other way and I am counting on the new administration to work for the better of the county but this still hurts. Some hope eh? BTW. I could be alittle bitter - My wedding date was to be November 22., At 2:00. My whole family is flying in to California with us.

Name: Rich
Date posted: 2008-10-28 6:36 PM
Hometown: Glendora, CA

Comment:

While it is true there are many issues we are dealing with in the upcoming election, Prop. 8 is just as important as any other measure out there. The destruction and degradation of the God given definition of marriage and family plays a much bigger role in the perils we face than most people care to think about. This issue isn't about discriminating against gays and lesbians, or becoming tolerant. I love these people just as much as I love anyone else, but I won't lie down and let them change the word of God. This issue is about preserving the definition of marriage God has given from the foundation of the world. We as a country and a world are on a slippery slope, and the destructive events we are surrounded by are of no coincidence. Let's let God define what marriage is, and for those who disagree, let's respectfully reach out in love and understanding to them as best we can, without compromising what we believe.

Name: Steve
Date posted: 2008-10-28 5:21 PM
Hometown: Huntington Beach

Comment:

Let me state that I am a married man with 2 school age children, and I don't belong to a religious group, nor do I belong to any homosexual rights groups. I have weighed the arguments both for and against 8, and I have come to this conclusion: Proposition 8 is not about religious rights, protecting children, or protecting "marriage" itself. Proposition 8 is about limiting the availability of the civil instrument of marriage (and all of the benefits afforded as such) to "committed" heterosexual couples, and restricting them from homosexual couples. When you remove the ideological concept that claims that marriage should only be between a man and a woman from the equation and then look at how the government grants rights to one couple because it is heterosexual, then denies those same rights to a homosexual couple, it is DISCRIMINATION plain and simple!

Name: Ron
Date posted: 2008-10-23 12:26 PM
Hometown: Modesto

Comment:

Marriage is between two people who love each other. Not just a man and a woman. And saying that this will affect children in a bad way is pure deceit on the part of pro-supporters. Lets hear it for good religious values – lies and deceit. If you want an example of how bad it will be after gays are allowed to marry take a look at Canada which allows gay marriage. I don't see any drastic changes there. Interesting no? These religious bigots are the same ones who were screaming about mixed racial marriage not too long ago. Also, I think they should consider the fact that we really want is government recognition which is only fair. Prop 8 supporters seem to think we’re attacking their faith and churches. Not! Prop 8 is the removal of a right and is discrimination pure and simple. I say kill it. I have no doubt that we will eventually win with marriage for all but I’m hoping to see it sooner than later.

Name: Coffeebean
Date posted: 2008-10-21 10:56 PM
Hometown: Laguna

Comment:

Why I’m voting Yes on 8 I keep it simple because I'm a simple man and a man of God and will vote yes on prop. 8 for the following reasons: ITS NOT ABOUT RIGHTS The Bible I am told is the word of God, every letter, every word and every sentence. You either believe this or you don't there is no walking the fence! The Bible say this about Marriage: Leviticus Chapter 18 Marriage is prohibited in certain degrees of kindred: and all unnatural lusts. 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination. There is so much more said about this but you will have to read that on your own. The main part says this: Looks like America is heading down a slippery slope, no mater how you dice it comes back as WRONG and America as a nation will pay as they are now only it will get worse Therefore Love the Sinner Hate the Sin. Peace

Name: Lindy Dennison-Devine
Date posted: 2008-10-14 6:37 PM
Hometown: Lake Arrowhead, CA

Comment:

My domestic partner and I live in a predominately republican and christian/mormon community. We have no issues on a day to day basis being accepted as who we are and what our "lifestyle" is...even with the parents of the friends of our 14 year old daughter...no problem!...no issues! In the last 4 days we have seen signs EVERYWHERE of "Yes on 8". We have sought out and had discussions with many of those who choose to advertise against our rights...hopefully, for some, we have hit home. My fear comes from not seeing ONE sign saying "NO ON 8". I am in the process of hand-making as many signs as I can and have reqruited our many friends and supporters to place them in their yard. It may be "grass roots", but I need to get the voice out there...EQUAL RIGHTS FOR ALL FAMILIES!" Love you all!

Name: Leo Garcia
Date posted: 2008-10-10 2:00 AM
Hometown: Laguna Beach

Comment:

America is still too immature to welcome this issue and the religious right are strong as ever in their pursuit to pass prop 8. Hell the evangelicals have joined forces with the LDS, even tho most of the time the evangelicals are calling Mormons fake Christians. The main stream African American Community as well as the Hispanic are just as bad. No I'm afraid we are just going to be forced to pick the lesser of two evils in this one. I also will never understand the log cabin Republicans, its a double standard that I just can grasp, its like a Jewish Nazi or a black KKK member, I will never understand how a gay man can back the Republican Party. I'm really more worried that this is just the start, that once they see they can alter the constitution of a state they will be emboldened to pursue more radical laws to alienate us. I still don't understand how this is even on the ballot since their is no legal argument, its purely a religious one.

Name: VOTE NO
Date posted: 2008-10-09 4:11 AM
Hometown: Sacremento

Comment:

Vote NO on Proposition 8 Don’t add unfair treatment to our Constitution! California’s Constitution is the official statement of California rights and freedoms. Proposition 8 on the November ballot would change the Constitution to exclude one group of people from the fundamental freedom to marry. Proposition 8 is a threat to our basic constitutional rights. No person or group should suffer discrimination. Equal protection under the law is the foundation of American society. Regardless of your personal feelings about marriage for gay and lesbian couples, it is wrong to use the ballot box to change fundamental rights and freedoms. Please vote against unfairness and inequality. Vote NO on Proposition 8

Name: nat G
Date posted: 2008-10-09 3:50 AM
Hometown: Los Angeles

Comment:

Duhh! 8's going to pass and not because anti gay marriage foes have more money but because CA EQ and Geoffry Kors have pissed away 10million in advertising with nothing to show for it. Their warm, fuzzy and incoherent ads are completely forgettable and ineffectual. Yes on 8 is running boiler plate hard hitting attack ads that hammer away at simple messages. I can only conclude that the no on 8 folks thought they were smart and ignored people with real experience at this. It's probably too late now but they have to radically pivot and directly attack the right wing fundamentalists and carpet bagging backers of prop 8 and there attempt to rewrite the state constitution to reflect their extremists beliefs. I'm sure there's plenty of tape of prop. 8 backers making ignorant, scary statements that would make the Gavin Newsom clip sound like childs play and voters hair stand up on end. The no on 8 campaign needs to wake up and go negative or it's all over for gay marriage in CA.

Name: John
Date posted: 2008-10-08 2:40 PM
Hometown: Los Angeles

Comment:

OK-ENOUGH! We have better things to do come Election Day! As an openly gay male, who did 23 years of service as an “openly gay” police officer with The Los Angeles Police Department (NOW RETIRED), and has been in a committed relationship since 1996; I think it is time for someone within the GLBT Community to “grow a pair” and say, “STOP egging on the heterosexual, religious-radicals!” As a community, we have better things to worry about than what someone else “labels” my (our) relationship (s). We are in the midst of electing a new president, our national economy is a mess, we are STILL at war with religious whacks who want to destroy our nation, The State of California will be broke if can’t get a loan by October 28th, our state budget was late (again), and people all over the US are suffering because of the recession. Given all this, I feel like I am riding aboard the Titanic, it’s sinking, and the damn drama queens are arguing over what color the deck chair seats should be.

Name: Ginelle
Date posted: 2008-10-08 12:28 PM
Hometown: British Columbia, Canada

Comment:

Surely there are more very wealthy gay celebreties who can be appealed to ante up towards the cause of justice and equality in the fight for equal marriage. With the likes of Brad Pitt and Steven Spielberg already stepping up to the plate in their support of gay rights, where are the out and proud gay celebs and business leaders when the community needs them. This is a perfect opportunity for the community as a whole, no matter the pecking order, to stand up as community, to stand up for the cause of justice, to fight this Proposition 8 to its' demise. It is time for the community to let it be known that it WILL NOT TAKE IT ANY MORE!

Name: Adam Jordan
Date posted: 2008-10-08 12:10 PM
Hometown: Battle Creek, MI

Comment:

What is really sad an rather pathetic is that gay men will go out to bars, spend hundreds of dollors. Those same gay men will go to gay restaurants & movie festivals. Why the hell can't they get together and say enough is enough. They (the gay & lesbians of CA) have been given a once in a lifetime opportunity. I want to know why they are not march, screaming, protesting, doing everthing in their power to show the world & California that they deserve (no demand) the right to be with (marry) the person of their choice. I beleive gays won't get anywhere until they are ready to fight for the right to marry. It's like going to gay pride (I used to Live in D.C.) There were more people drinking at the bars then there were at the rally. You almost feel that gays don't deserve the what they are asking for...They would rather drink, party, & do illegal drugs than march for something worth while.

Name: Chris Sullivan
Date posted: 2008-10-08 11:11 AM
Hometown: Chicago, IL

Comment:

The bulk of heterosexual people can mostly be broken down into 3 categories: (1) Very anti-GLBT (2) "Tolerant" of GLBT people (3) GLBT supportive. How the 1st and 3rd will vote is obvious. The second group however, is the one this add is targeted toward. If they can just sway enough people who are wavering on the issue - they could easily win. Since Mayor Newson's statement and tone was so easy to spin as to in effect say these voters "don't have a choice" - enough of them may well choose to vote for this as a way of saying that they do in fact have a choice. Honestly, I think it's awful that the rites of a minority are put up to a popular vote - but we wouldn't be the 1st group to be subjected to this. If Mayor Newsom would record an ad wherein he clarifies his statement and appeal to the fairness of those still undecided (or those put off by the commercials of him) - it might help a bit.

Name: Bonnie
Date posted: 2008-10-08 10:31 AM
Hometown: New York

Comment:

What truly gets me here is that the Mormon Church along with many other religious individuals and institutions puts forth millions and millions of dollars for lies and smears in television ads instead of spending that money for things that are important like feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, helping those less fortunate in so many others ways, etc. How can they live with themselves in how they spend there money to do nothing more that destroy the lives of 2 people who love each other and want nothing more than to live their lives and take care of each other as they see fit. What ever happened to the home of the Free America? The right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? There is just so much energy being spent negatively instead of for the good. Shame on the religious institutions of helping their fellow wo/men. Keep a smile on your face and love in your heart!

Name: Pat
Date posted: 2008-10-08 9:40 AM
Hometown: Miami

Comment:

Wayne. Do you think a win for McSame will help us???????? Yes, the blacks are very much against gay marriage, but Barack is NOT!! He is TOTALLY for gay rights!! TOTALLY!! (Some blacks actually DO care about equality---SOME!)He and Biden BOTH are gay supporters!! Even if prop 8 is passed, it will be overturned by the Supreme Court again. We just have to start over. But with a President who is a FRIEND, not ENEMY, it will be MUCH easier for us to win equality!!!!! Go ahead and vote Green just as long as you don't vote red. Do NOT think McSAME in office can help us....and anyone on here who says he will is a repub plant!! (AKA. LIAR!!!)

Name: Tricia
Date posted: 2008-10-08 9:32 AM
Hometown: Miami

Comment:

The most passionate way to bring people together is through hate, fear and anger. It "feels" better. All that passionate hate! How can we lovers compete with all that hate?? I married the love of my life in July. I am glad we took advantage of the Supreme Court's decision. But I am SOOOOO sad that others may not get the opportunity to marry the love of their lives. I hope we can get some more celebrities and their money to support marriage equality. I just don't know where Rosie, Ellen, Melissa, Teddy, Lance, Elton, and all the other gazillion gays and lesbians are. They could put together one hell of an ad for us...not to mention their BIG MONEY! Where are our heros and heronines????!! Now is the time for them to come forward and help us change this world into a better place--filled with love, peace, and EQUALITY!! COME ON AND HELP!!!!!!!!

Name: ALW
Date posted: 2008-10-08 9:19 AM
Hometown: OHIO

Comment:

I just want people to know that it grieves me to see the treatment of gay marriage like this. I can only take responsibility for my own actions. I'm not a resident of CA, so I can't help at the polls, but know that I support the equal rights for all people to marry. I mean come on....some lady just married herself (can't remember where, but it happened) as well as people marrying their dogs and cats and cars. People aren't picketing these moments. I am a pastor and believer in Jesus Christ. He has our bests in mind. It pains me to see so called 'Christ-followers' make such fools of themselves. I don't believe that gay marriage is the best God has for us, but I don't believe taking that right away from adults who can make their own choices...the free will God has given to them, should be toyed with. I'm sorry people are angry with you and want to hurt, especially militant Christians.

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