Issue Number 1017 | The Cost of Being Gay | Advocate.com The Cost of Being Gay  | CULTURE | Advocate.com

Continental promo
|| Home > CULTURE  ||
 

The Cost of Being Gay

We all agree that sexual orientation isn’t just about whom you sleep with but how much of your identity is tied up in the things you have to buy (not to mention the price you’re willing to pay for them).
From The Advocate  October 21, 2008
The Cost of Being Gay

Let’s begin with a stipulation: It’s difficult to write about one’s personal spending without seeming like a snob or a communist, a sybarite or a Spartan. Some of the things I give money for will surely seem silly or extravagant to you, and some of the things I go without may seem like necessities in your household. But the highly idiosyncratic nature of consumption raises a cultural question: Is there a particularly gay way of spending?

Ambrose Bierce called money "an evidence of culture.” He was kidding, sort of -- joking, as he often did, about the airs of the rich and cultured. (He also called money “a passport to polite society.”) But at some basic level, money is surely evidence of culture, in the sense that the items we value enough to purchase help define who we are. So if we can agree that there is a gay culture, there should be testimony to it in our spending habits. Just look at the ads in this magazine. They lead to another question: With the economy the way it is, can any of us afford to be gay?

This question presented itself to me in stark terms this past summer as I sat on the Fire Island Pines beach scrubbing my jeans with sand. A few weeks earlier, having watched my mutual-fund gains shrink from the merely mediocre to the almost theoretical, I had resolved to cut back. And so when I needed new jeans, I foreswore $300-plus designer denim in favor of a $145 pair from the French basics store A.P.C. The store puts a little label on its untreated-denim jeans saying that if you soak them in salt water and then rub them with sand, they will break in easily and develop those striations and wear marks that high-end designers charge the extra money for.

That’s why I was abusing my jeans with beach sand and drawing strange glances: I wanted a designer look at a more affordable price. Whether that makes me a fussy, stereotypical faggot is another question, one I hope to address in this story.

Another stipulation, an obvious but important one: $145 is still an outrageous sum for jeans. (And actually, according to A.P.C.’s website, the store now charges $155 for the same pair.) But not long ago, at the New York City outpost of Universal Gear (a chain store with locations in the gay sections of four cities), I found Dolce & Gabbana jeans for $274.95 -- on sale, down from $345. Under the cold glare of D&G, $145 seems like a bargain. And this particular gay man is not going to the Gap to buy its saggy-assed jeans, even if they are only $55, and even if I do live on a reporter’s salary, and even if that does mean I eat leftovers most nights and have traded down from Junípero gin ($35 per bottle) to Tanqueray ($20 per bottle). Call me a queen, but Gap jeans don’t fit me, in at least two senses: They don’t fit my body, and, I would argue, they don’t fit my culture.

My first phone call for this story was to Lee Badgett, the brilliant economist with the Williams Institute, an LGBT public policy think tank at the University of California, Los Angeles. Badgett has been researching gay people and poverty, and is so polite that she suppressed a groan when I told her the reason for my call, but I understood her objections: This story could confirm a stereotype of gays as more privileged than straights. It could make us seem frivolous, and it would continue to ignore the least advantaged in our community.

But then I asked Badgett to send me her preliminary data on gays and poverty. She did so -- the data appear in this story for the first time -- and the numbers show a complicated picture, which does reveal some financial advantage in being a gay man. According to census figures, gay and lesbian couples experience poverty at about the same rate as straight couples of the same race, age, and education level. But when you look at all gay men -- including singles -- they are half as likely to be living in poverty as straight men, according to numbers Badgett compiled from a 2002 survey by the National Center for Health Statistics. That survey showed that 2.1% of gay and bisexual men ages 18–44 live in poverty, compared with 4.2% of straight men in the same age group. (Straight women and lesbian/bisexual women in that age group had no statistically significant difference in poverty rates -- for each cohort, the rate was about 6%.)

These data may mean only that gay men under 45 who live in poverty are less likely than others to reveal themselves in a survey. But could the data also mean something else? Have gay men created a culture in which poverty is less acceptable than it is for straight men? And do we work harder to avoid it because of those cultural expectations? To put it blithely, is $145 the least we can spend on jeans, because otherwise the jeans wouldn’t be gay enough? 

Page: 1 | 2 | 3
Photography by Michael Elins

Reader Comments

These comments are reproduced as written by visitors to this Web site. They have not been edited for content, grammar, or spelling. The viewpoints appearing here are those of the writer, and do not necessarily reflect the opinion or views of advocate.com, The Advocate, or its affiliates.

  • Name: Phillip Foster
    Date posted: 2008-10-19 11:08 PM
    Hometown: Modesto, CA

    Comment:

    your article "pay for gay" simply emphasizes the impression i have of most gay men: that they are superficial, selfish, and exclusive to a fault. and it's not just the gay community but society in general who, more and more, place stipulations on people as to what they should wear, how to act, and what their weight should be. some of the most decent (and intelligent) people i know wear $8 jeans from wal-mart, drive fords and chevys, take their meals at home instead of at trendy restaurants, and who weigh upwards of 200 lbs. does that make them less gay or less important to society? hardly! in my opinion, it makes them better and i gladly associate with those types. so long as there are people willing to plunk down hundreds of dollars for denim, $50,000 for a vehicle, $300 for an iphone, or $48 for shave cream, you can bet there will be merchants willing to sell them! a bit of frugality would do not only the gay community, but society as a whole, a world of good.


  • Name: Robert
    Date posted: 2008-10-10 10:22 PM
    Hometown: Fort Lauderdale

    Comment:

    Dear Mr. Cloud: Unlike many of the posters above, I thoroughly enjoyed your story, "The cost of being Gay." I particularly enjoyed the individual profiles of select people and their spending habits. Specifically, one caught my attention: "Dollar for Dollar" on the top of p.46. As my income falls within this range, I can identify with most of the things Mr. High Life seems to enjoy and afford, with the exception of the $2 million condo. I cannot figure out how your financial adviser, Ms. Woodard, was able to afford all of this guy's stuff plus a $2 million condo on $225K/yr, especially in NYC! The way I see it, Mr. High Life would have to be pulling down about $425,000-$500,000 annually to "responsibly afford this lifestyle." (Maybe he bought the condo, pre-construction in 1998 for 100K from his father, the developer?). Assuming you ever see this post, I would appreciate a response, as I can't help but wonder what I'm missing in my budgeting. Thanks in advance.


  • Name: Heather
    Date posted: 2008-10-08 5:33 PM
    Hometown: Southern California

    Comment:

    What a very andro-normative article. Talk about reinforcing the image that gay culture is all about men!


  • Name: Justin
    Date posted: 2008-10-08 2:27 PM
    Hometown: Brooklyn, N,Y

    Comment:

    I don't what to make of this article or most of the comments regarding expensive jeans. I also notice there was no break down regarding race and ethnicity. I guess the author and these so called "acurate" studies from these organizations assume the community is one "type"( ie white male proffesionals). No wonder why I don't care for so call "gay rights."


  • Name: Charles
    Date posted: 2008-10-08 11:47 AM
    Hometown: Atlanta

    Comment:

    Gee, everyone is so hung up on the jeans comment! There's some more interesting aspects to this article such as when the economy goes in the toilet we are less likely to have job securityin the workplace. No job means no $300 jeans!


  • Name: Perry
    Date posted: 2008-10-08 10:32 AM
    Hometown: Dubuque, Iowa

    Comment:

    $300 for a pair of jeans is "typical" for gays? Oh, please, Mary! Most of us have better things to spend $300 gay dollars on (i.e. rent, kids, food ...) THanks, Advocate, for reinforcing the sterotype of gay men as shallow & materialistic!


  • Name: perry
    Date posted: 2008-10-06 11:06 PM
    Hometown: pdx

    Comment:

    has anyone thought about the fact that gay men might be more likely to choose a different career path than straight men? I know more lesbian social workers and gay advertising/media-ites than straight ones, thats for sure.


  • Name: Michael Todd
    Date posted: 2008-10-06 12:39 PM
    Hometown: Chicago, IL

    Comment:

    I make a 6-figure income, a few pairs of Seven jeans, a BMW and a nice condo. I have also worked hard to build equity in my home and the retirement account I started at 22. I haven't paid a penny in credit card interest in 15 years and aggressively manage my finances. I worked hard for all of those things, and I admittedly am troubled by how many of my check-to-check gay and straight friends have maxed-out lives. I know that many of them will be swallowed up as their lifelines to lives they cannot afford on merit - credit cards and loans - are going to disappear with the current credit crunch. It shouldn't be embarrassing to achieve success - it should be embarrassing to fake it and look down on others who don't play along. I take solace in the fact that I did so the old-fashioned way that is neither gay nor straight - I worked hard and earned enough to pay cash for it.


  • Name: Drew
    Date posted: 2008-10-05 4:56 PM
    Hometown: Chicago

    Comment:

    I think the author has good intentions, as he's trying to decide why some people need an Audi/BMW and some people can settle for a Chevy/Ford, yet receive the same amount of satisfaction. Yes, gay people have higher taste requirements than straight people, but most of us, I believe, ignore the cost. If it's cheap and we love it, we'll buy it; same goes for something expensive. There's really no science here, which is why the author's facts and figures are nearly identical for straight and gay populations- we're all the same. (But yes, gay people probably spend more TIME in maintaining an appearance, not money.)


  • Name: Fred Bardamu
    Date posted: 2008-10-04 12:04 AM
    Hometown: NYC

    Comment:

    To the editors of The Advocate:try to stay relevant. I scratched my head over this article.....for a few seconds. John Cloud wrote: Call me a queen, but Gap jeans don’t fit me, in at least two senses: They don’t fit my body, and, I would argue, they don’t fit my culture." Whose culture? Not mine This is patently embarrassing! I wish this were parody, sadly not. I love how you cobble together nonsense and then dress it up under an imprimatur from the Williams Institute. You really layed an egg with this one. Talk about anachronistic this is positively fossilized. Mart Crowley would love you. At least you know who Ambrose Bierce is, although the poor soul is gnashing his teeth in Hades over this. Try a LITTLE harder. Is "John Cloud" (how nebulous) a pseudonym for Paris Hilton? _________________________________________________________________


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2008-10-03 6:48 PM
    Hometown: San Francisco

    Comment:

    Wow...I would never be friends with this guy. Very, very '80s in so many ways.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2008-10-03 5:16 PM
    Hometown: Columbia, MO

    Comment:

    I miss Hero magazine.


  • Name: William Zakrajshek
    Date posted: 2008-10-03 4:50 AM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    I just laughed reading this .... i live on the beach in so cal and i would never spend 145 on a pair of jeans ... i honestly go to PAC SUN ... oh no i know right ... and spend 55 bucks for 2 pairs of jeans that make my ass looks HOT ... and i go to Achor Blue and get 2 Tshirts for 30 and put on some flip flops and my SPY Sunglasses (90) and call it a day.... seriously don't see the point in spending all this money on clothes when i look just as good as the guy next to me... I dig the surfer look and its affordable for just about anyone ... If i look str8 so be it ... but atleast i look good!!!


  • Name: Bobby
    Date posted: 2008-10-02 7:38 PM
    Hometown: Jacksonville, FL

    Comment:

    Hilarious. This story made me chuckle. I've had doubts for years about the journalistic integrity of the highest profile gay magazine out there; this article finally put those doubts to bed. We are all vapid, label whores who flit from trend to trend according to the Advocate, which makes me think that we'll never be taken seriously as long as stereotypes perpetuated by this article continue. Thanks a lot.


  • Name: Kevin
    Date posted: 2008-10-02 5:23 PM
    Hometown: Pittsburgh, PA

    Comment:

    Gay men are rejected by a large portion of society because we don't fit into their definition of "normal." As a gay man I am a reject of gay society because I don't spend an entire paycheck on a pair of pants. I totally understand why so many of the gay men I know don't care to be active members of the gay community. Why would they want to if they aren't considered "good enough" based on the label attached to the clothes they wear?


  • Name: Pete
    Date posted: 2008-10-02 3:56 PM
    Hometown: California

    Comment:

    Why does the Advocate spend all its energy constructing these straw-man stereotypes? Editors, look at the comments here. Are any of them positive about this article? Do you care whether you sell magazines or this web site? The Advocate has a great franchise, it's been around a long time. But it's wasting its credibility on this stuff. A related question, since this article supposedly reflects someone's idea of a "gay identity", then doesn't that only fuel the arguments of those who claim they are "not gay"? That is, the whole men who have sex with men group. And in doing this is the Advocate not reducing or damaging support for "gay" issues? Perhaps your next "fashion" statement could provide some balance.


  • Name: leftypower
    Date posted: 2008-10-02 3:51 PM
    Hometown: brooklyn

    Comment:

    This article disgusts me. My partner and I know hundreds - if not thousands - of homosexuals here in New York City. Sure, there are some who are similar in attitude and, I presume, shopping habits, as this article's author. Many of us give to our organizations, politicians and families instead. We can and should give more, but for any reader to believe we all subscribe to this corporate/consumer stereotype is a mistake. I was not put on this earth to be treated like a second class citizen under our laws - or as a vapid consumer by some egotistical designer or corporation. I encourage the readers who are as appalled as I to double-down on their contributions to charities, candidates, churches and the arts.


  • Name: Kirby
    Date posted: 2008-10-02 7:48 AM
    Hometown: Cape Town South Africa

    Comment:

    I'll offer another perspective from a very different stance. I live in South Africa where we have one of the greatest wealth gaps in modern history thanks to a hangover from the old Apartheid regime. For a long time we ranked highest on the Geni co-efficient and while I'm not sure if this is still the case, what is still true is that we have a lot of really rich white people here and a lot of really poor black people. Being gay, or at least being out, is very much a luxury of the privileged in our society. African culture is largely based around a communal ethos, which is defined as "Ubuntu". If you give cause to exile yourself from the network, you'd be old in the cold - I mean this quite literally. Thus it's essential both social and economic circumstances that prevent people from living openly gay lives here. In our country many gay people, literally cannot afford to be gay.


  • Name: chris
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 5:21 PM
    Hometown: new york

    Comment:

    Agree or not with the sentiments expressed in this article it was thought provoking. I think the author was honest and not smug but questioning of himself. That's healthy. So many of the comments in response were so self congratulatory and smug by contrast. Can't we have a civil conversation and allow for differences in values? Seems to me you struck a resounding chord here! Thanks.


  • Name: John
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 4:24 PM
    Hometown: New York, NY

    Comment:

    I seems like John Cloud doesn't really understand the gay community as a whole. He provided a lot of good numerical figures in his article, but his mindset seems kind of stuck in the Chelsea gay ghetto culture. I think that at least 40% of gay men would be feel fine in a pair of Gap jeans (GAP does sell slimmer jeans now) John Cloud needs to spend more time finding good deals on clothes- they're out there...get things on sale, buy cheaper shirts and have them tailored to fit snug like a designer shirt would. Also, there was never any mention of the fact that gay people are less likely to be raising children than straight people are. Therefore, it's not so simple to compare the incomes and buying power of gay and straight workers.


  • Name: MM
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 4:11 PM
    Hometown: San Diego

    Comment:

    I think it's a funny and interesting article. I understand that not every gay guy spends $200 on jeans, but I do and so do my friends. I think it has more to do with good taste than fulfilling a social need!


  • Name: Birdies
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 3:25 PM
    Hometown: Philly

    Comment:

    I'm sorry guys, but this is such a stupid article


  • Name: Mark C
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 1:44 PM
    Hometown: Dallas, TX

    Comment:

    What I really resent about this article is that it depicts gay men as superficial and narcissistic with a live-for-today attitude. Crazy, that may describe a few gay men I've known in my life, but certainly not the majority. What would be far more interesting and insightful is to read about the lives of men who are involved in community, giving service and that what they wear, albeit important on some level, is more of an afterthough rather than the focus of their existence. Nothing is sexier than substance in a man. Too bad the author doesn't get that.


  • Name: Robert B
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 1:39 PM
    Hometown: Bedford, Tx

    Comment:

    The most expenisve jeans I have ever bought were Lucky brand on sale for $45. I have a pair of jeans I have had for 8 years, $20 bucks, still goign strong This article makes me wonder why the author has to spend so much money to live where he does? And what is the point of him spending that much money? My husband makes good money, and we have never had to agonize over spending $125 for clothing because we would not do such a thing. He and I do have to spend a bit more as "Big and tall" clothing seems to cost more for some reason, but we cannot empathize with the author. Save your money, spend $40 bucks on jeans, you might be surprised they are just as good as the $300 dollar one.


  • Name: Rich Sacher
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 11:53 AM
    Hometown: New Orleans

    Comment:

    I have subscribed to the Advocate for over twenty years, and I never expected to see the demeaning cover story which appeared in October's issue. You used seven pages to equate being gay with a vapid stereotype: mindless, superficial adolescents whose self worth and identity is dependant on owning and displaying the fashion trinkets currently in vogue. No, I certainly do NOT agree that my identity is tied to the things I "have to buy" What nonsense! Either you have lost any sense of your mission to the gay community, or you are being deliberately offensive and provocative...or both. Rich Sacher New Orleans


  • Name: Sebastian
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 5:17 AM
    Hometown: Montreal

    Comment:

    It's all about each person's perception of opportunity cost. I think the author has watched one too many episodes of shows like Sex and the City which in turn have obstructed him to see the world beyond that realm.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2008-10-01 2:59 AM
    Hometown: Minneapolis

    Comment:

    Well, I think there are a variety of reasons gay men may be less likely to be in poverty than their heterosexual brethren despite as recently as the 90's studies showing gay men made a third less than heterosexual male counterparts with same level of education and experience due largely to discirmination. For one thing, gay men are less likely to have children. Particularly children they did not choose or plan to have. I wouldn't be suprised if the size of household and number of dependents in the average heterosexual man's household wasn't significantly higher than it is for gay men meaning that a heterosexual man in a household of four with 3 dependents(a wife and two children) could easily be under the poverty line even on an income that would serve a single gay man quite nicely. I also think some low income men who have sex with men may be less likely to openly identify as gay for a variety of reasons in a survey.


  • Name: Gossip Killer
    Date posted: 2008-09-30 11:37 PM
    Hometown: Vancouver

    Comment:

    Sounds like Vancouver. Here its salesclerks who can't afford what they sell. They find the money for meth. Sit around a lounge thinking they are going to be discovered and hoping someone will buy them a drink (in which no one ever does) then they go home wondering how they are going to pay their roommate their share of the rent. And God forbid they get a credit card, then its one cheap trip to Las Vegas or LA and still think they are going to be discovered. What they usually come home with is some STD from a guy they have instantly fallen in love with and its just gonna work long distance to discover months down the road that they can't answer their phone anymore as its probably a creditor. With the lover long since vanished from their facebook page. Fucking them isn't even worth it, because they are so high most of the time, they think being super thin is super fit and they end up being the biggest girl in the bunch.


  • Name: Julie
    Date posted: 2008-09-30 8:51 PM
    Hometown: North of Seattle

    Comment:

    What a label whore, and a piss-poor reporter at that. He raised more questions than he answered. Did you catch the part about lesbians being almost three times more likely to live in poverty than gay men? He blew that one off, not even bothering to find out if gay women shop vs straight women. And how, if so many lesbians used to being poor, will we be handling the financially crappy future. He also reinforced the tired, old stereotype that all gay men are superficial fashion whores. That, my friends, is who the advertisers are chasing. And the author is quite obviously easy pickin's for their marketing tactics. P.S. Also a prime example of why I stopped subscribing to the print edition of Advocate. It's all by, about and for rich fashion whore boys. Yawn.


  • Name: Dave
    Date posted: 2008-09-30 6:22 PM
    Hometown: Vancouver

    Comment:

    I feel as if most people commenting forgot about the opening paragraph and what was said about travel within the article, "Some of the things I give money for will surely seem silly or extravagant to you, and some of the things I go without may seem like necessities in your household." With respect to jeans, it's all about fit and the material. Many straight and gay friends all agree that this is the main draw they have to more expensive jeans, they just fit better and look better. If you don't agree, then fine, but don't say it's ridiculous until you try some on. But get an experienced sales person who knows what they are talking about and can get jeans for you to try on based on your wants.


  • Name: Cássio
    Date posted: 2008-09-30 4:53 PM
    Hometown: Rio de Janeiro

    Comment:

    You can´t even imagine what is to be gay in a country where label jeans - let us say, Diesel - cost from US$ 250 to US$ 500. You really do not know what you are complaining about...


  • Name: RaleighRob
    Date posted: 2008-09-30 7:35 AM
    Hometown: Raleigh, NC

    Comment:

    You've got to be kidding me....$145 for jeans?!? For that money you should be buying an entire suit! Be the "snob" who can't handle $55 jeans from Gap (which, in my opinion, is STILL too pricey)...and I'll do the smart thing and save my money for things that are more important. (Food, shelter, medicine, utilities, etc.) No wonder so many people thing gays are frivolous and elitist.


  • Name: justalittleguy part 2
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 11:34 PM
    Hometown: Anonymous City

    Comment:

    So far the only thing I have been able to drag through have been memories of my life's experience. I like all people, some more than others, but each person we meet contributes to our lives. You can be surrounded by gold, but unless you have good, bad and mediocre relationships with people you are not living. Some of the rich people I know are the most unhappy even when they are talking about money, wealth, or the privildged life. Only you can make a difference.


  • Name: justalittleguy part 1
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 11:31 PM
    Hometown: Anonymous Village

    Comment:

    There are a million different types of gay examples of lifestyle. Gays and straights don't like the way I dress. But I am happy dressing the way I do. I live in a shack bought 30 years ago but have modest furniture, lots and lots of books, no jewelery and nothing really of value. My most valuable assets are the people I know, talk to, share a meal with -- playing basektball at the community center with guys and sometimes women. These are the priceless gifts of life. As I remind people the only things you can take with you with you go to heaven or die is what you can drag through a pin hole in a piece of paper.


  • Name: Chris Prouty
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 7:24 PM
    Hometown: San Francisco

    Comment:

    As a former model, I know what it's like to have those designer clothes. There's more of a visceral thrill in having someone tell you how great your [insert designer name] clothes are looking on you. However if I actually had to PAY for those clothes/accessories...? I highly doubt I'd be rocking the Chanel and Calvin Klein. We live in a society that places value on labels. Regardless of the bitching and moaning about costs, there's still a huge consumer base for higher quality/higher status labelings.


  • Name: Patrick F Sullivan Sr.
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 6:30 PM
    Hometown: Fort Lauderdale, Fl

    Comment:

    Please let me know the breed of dog in the main picture. Thank you.


  • Name: rafael
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 5:31 PM
    Hometown: Boston

    Comment:

    I would much rather spend the money at my plastic surgeon's office, cuz I like to look fab with my clothes off! And my face is extremly important too! Who cares about these silly material goods? It's the face, the body, and what's inside that counts. I would not want to around the $300 jean club people, I'm sure they are all shallow and look awful with the jeans off!!!


  • Name: M.
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 5:00 PM
    Hometown: Portland, Oregon

    Comment:

    Ive always had low self esteem but it was a nightmare to come out of the closet only to have shallow image obsessed gay men make me feel worthless and suicidal because Im not a "pretty boy" with trendy clothes and a supermodels body. Body Image is an issue that gay men need to confront, because its making alot of us miserable.


  • Name: arthur
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 11:26 AM
    Hometown: Columbus, OH

    Comment:

    Wall Street must be gay.


  • Name: Gene
    Date posted: 2008-09-29 10:34 AM
    Hometown: Dubuque

    Comment:

    Oh please ... even the cliches in this article are cliched. "Gay fashionable" describes only the tiniest sub-culture. Next you'll be claiming that just because you're gay you MUST love Cher.


  • Name: Tessa
    Date posted: 2008-09-28 5:02 PM
    Hometown: Alabama

    Comment:

    I have trouble relating to the theory that spending habits might be related to self-control depletion in other areas. For me, spending more than $35 on a pair of pants is not an option regardless of how depleted my self-control is. For me to do anything other than shop consignment stores and the clearance racks at Lane Bryant, Cato's, or mall stores, or wait for Buy one get one half-off sales, would result in me forgoing food, having my phone cut off, or even facing not making rent. As a matter of fact, I know several people that dumpster dive clothes from behind the Salvation Army and take clothes people who move out no longer fit or need. While there may be something to the control-depletion idea, spending $145 on a pair of jeans is still a result of having the money to do so, for many of us it just isn't an option unless we are willing to face thousands of dollars and dept or eviction at which point it becomes a serious problem.


  • Name: Rob
    Date posted: 2008-09-28 4:27 PM
    Hometown: Los Angeles

    Comment:

    Wow, I really can't relate to this article. When I got the gay gene, some kind of meiosis must have happened, because I didn't get the gene for caring about clothes. More than once, straight friends have tried to help me out with some fashion advice. Though until recently I was the only openly gay person in my workplace, it's a very liberal environment, so I don't feel any pressure to manage my colleagues' impressions of me, aside from the pressure we all feel to do good work and to get along with each other. I'm generally careful with my money, sometimes to a fault. When I do feel the urge to splurge, I don't spend my money on fancy clothes. I'd much rather spend it on good food, CDs, books, or concert tickets.


  • Name: jace
    Date posted: 2008-09-27 4:23 PM
    Hometown: seallte

    Comment:

    wow some boing a labe hore jsut case you gay hon ey donse emaing you have brand dsme olya labe hore would dothat tht shit plussti really bad tatse as well 9f you where in all deinger shit mix and back you stuff dam it


  • Name: owen
    Date posted: 2008-09-27 3:19 PM
    Hometown: los angeles

    Comment:

    I secretly put clothing that I buy from TJ Maxx or any resale shop for my partner into a Barney's, Niemans, or Bloomingdale bags. He never knows the difference and we end up saving hundreds of dollars which allows me to donate to causes and organizations I believe will better this world. I find most of those expensive jeans are just plain ugly and border on "acid washed". The giant $400 sunglasses make ppl look foolish and have made me wonder aloud "How many hundreds of thousands of dollars of sunglasses are there on this (fire) island right now?" and what could that money be better spent on? My partner calls me his "depression era wife" because I squeeze every last bit of toothepaste, shampoo and conditioner(which i secretly water down also). I'm just happy I don't rely on "things" to define me.


  • Name: Tim Fred
    Date posted: 2008-09-27 8:44 AM
    Hometown: Houston

    Comment:

    This article is so sad. The people who think or wright that $300 sunglasses and $300 blue jeans, made in the same Chinese factory as a $30 pair, make them, set them apart, and are a big spender is the cost of self loathing. To also claim that Gays are incapable of spending less than Straights is the height of the stupid hill. Yes, some make a lot of money, and want people to know it, but so do Straights. Look at professional Straight athletes, stars, and musicians, their styles are a performance. Have you attempted to have a conversation with these "big spenders?" Well talk to a rock and you will understand. However, the rock will not spew out hate for other rocks, talk about what the other rock is wearing, taxes that take away from blue jean spending, what car they drive, bore you with rolling eyes, or stand as stiff as one of them.


  • Name: Jason B
    Date posted: 2008-09-27 7:13 AM
    Hometown: Australia

    Comment:

    If people think you look cheap in your clothes well thats their problem !!!


  • Name: Ron Oliver
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 5:18 PM
    Hometown: Palm Springs

    Comment:

    Dear Will from Long Island -- Your point is well taken. On the other hand, there are very few problems in life that a nice Prada suit can't fix.


  • Name: Will
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 4:25 PM
    Hometown: Long Island

    Comment:

    The larger consumer-driven culture continually tells us that we are incomplete without buying this or that. And when people focus attention only on externals, the inner life fails. Yes, I see poverty but I also see too many people suffering from an inner poverty. John Cloud, reading your opening sentence alone, it is clear that you suffer from an inner poverty. If you truly want to deepen as a person, start by letting go of your co-dependency, worrying what people will think of you if you are not wearing the right kind of jean. And if you really think there is one monolithic gay culture or gay community, I think that you are buying into a myth that has been needed in order to politicize us into becoming the social power that we are. We are everywhere but we are as diverse as the countries we live in.


  • Name: Tom
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 2:55 PM
    Hometown: Martinez CA

    Comment:

    I agree with Mark's comments. You can get jeans for a little over $20 - go to Pennys, Mervyns or Costco. Your $20 jeans will look just as good as his laying on the floor of his bedroom.


  • Name: Steven Tuck
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 12:39 PM
    Hometown: Wichita,KS

    Comment:

    If you have to spend so much money to show how big your penis is, you have your priorities screwed up! I like nice clothes, OK I like them a lot but you know that's why God made sales.


  • Name: Hal Shipman
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 11:55 AM
    Hometown: Chicago

    Comment:

    Strangely, I think that the article author has never, ever looked at himself in the mirror and is a horrible shopper. The difference between a $145-300 pair of jeans and a well-considered, $45 (max) pair in how you look is negligible. The skill is in knowing a good fit for you and quality design and materials. Being stylish is not expensive. Going to a boutique and just buying what thye've pre-selected is lazy. Learning how to do the filtering yourself and having a good tailor (which you need even with the high-end stuff) are much more important.


  • Name: Matthew Thompson
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 7:57 AM
    Hometown: Reston, Virginia

    Comment:

    How "old school" gay. Contrary to the subtitle of this article, "we all" most certainly do NOT agree. This extravagant and excessive behavior is known as something different now... Tragic. Unlike this $22 underwear donning author, I'm content saving and investing, and surely I'll be grateful down the line being able to retire comfortably in my Haines.


  • Name: Jordan
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 4:48 AM
    Hometown: Pasadena, CA

    Comment:

    I don't think any "high fashion" designers make jeans in my size and I perfer not to shimmy into them with the aid of "Crisco and some fishing wire." Hence, I am exiled to the stores that make things for reasonable prices. I count this as one of the few perks of being a "fatty" in the gay community.


  • Name: Elliott
    Date posted: 2008-09-26 12:35 AM
    Hometown: Saskatoon SK Canada

    Comment:

    I have no issue with what a person spends on clothes, or cars, or whatever props they need to maintain their image or their perception of lifestyle. I do know that I have yet to find a gay/lesbian advocacy or service organization that is over funded. It is notoriously difficult to shake money from our community. If we all gave just a little bit, rather than leaving that to the few wealthy benefactors or reliance on grants from various levels of government, the battles still before us would seem just that much less daunting. Give to the queer charity or advocacy organization of your choice. It'll make you feel good, you'll get a tax receipt, and who knows, it might just do all of us some good.


  • Name: Lin
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 8:15 PM
    Hometown: Portland, OR

    Comment:

    Ridiculous: if my self-worth was wrapped up in what other people in my community thought of my clothes, I'd have committed suicide years ago! I'm gay, I'm out, I have a good job (which means, by extension, that I could buy nicer if I wanted to), and I couldn't give a damn about the label and price of my clothes. I buy about 75% of my clothes used at a good resale shop. Why spend a mere $145 on "cheap" jeans (which I then have to distress myself), when I could find a good, sturdy pair of FUNCTIONAL (yet still presentable) jeans for about 20% that amount. My only splurge is Calvin Klein jeans--which I buy used, every time--and that is only because Levi's do not fit me (I'm high waisted). I'm middle class--why should I knock myself out pretending that I have money I do not have? To impress someone shallow enough to care about what brand I buy? Gee, that would make me ALMOST as shallow as the author! No thanks.


  • Name: Todd
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 3:41 PM
    Hometown: Seattle, WA

    Comment:

    Why don't you just go to J.C. Penney and buy Levi jeans for $29.95? Who cares (or would even notice) how much someone pays for their jeans? I happen to live in Seattle, home to possibly the 'snootiest gays in the world' but here it's not expensive jeans, but "expensive hair gel" so they can make their hair stand straight up in a stupid-looking greasy "point". The "jeans" here consist of tight black "Pippi Longstocking" tights that make any young man look like Peter Pan............get me outta here! This is possibly the most vacuous place I've ever been.........


  • Name: Andrew
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 3:35 PM
    Hometown: Massachusetts

    Comment:

    I don't see any inherent disregard for those who DO live in poverty; I don't think the author was whining about his situation, particularly, so much as noting a change. It's a valid observation, in any case, and I feel that it's still a valid human interest piece for those of us fortunate enough to NOT be losing homes/jobs/401k plans and the like. At any rate, I can certainly relate to this, even though, as a student, I'm from a completely different income bracket. I buy all of my own clothes, and I feel a definite pressure to own, say, $90 jeans from Guess as opposed to $25 ones from Old Navy; for better or worse, it's expected that I'll dress more nicely than my peers. It's a stereotype I don't have any issue with upholding.


  • Name: Mike
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 3:18 PM
    Hometown: Portland, Oregon

    Comment:

    Poor John! In these tough economic times when people are losing jobs left and right, everyday folks in all communities are having their homes foreclosed, and all of our 401k plans are going down the toilet, he has to cheapen himself down to jeans that "only" cost $145 and a $25 bottle of booze so that can can still be the ultimate in fabulous. Boo hoo. You have my deepest sympathies, really. I won't sleep a wink tonight worrying about how you're going to afford a new pair of D&G shoes or the payment on your Mini Cooper convertible.


  • Name: Louis
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 11:10 AM
    Hometown: Kelowna, BC

    Comment:

    It does depends on your priorities. Nothing worse and not sexy then a guy all decked out to project who he is not. Once you get to his place it is a sty and he hangs his duds on a water pipe, worse he doesn't even own a stainer or the only knife in the house is for slicing bread but the decor is exquisite. Of course I did not go there for that but the charm goes down a few notches, back to his ass, hummmmm!


  • Name: Greg
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 4:29 AM
    Hometown: Denver

    Comment:

    Maybe we need an article on how the Chelsea set is turning to the Bear Community for fashion sense during these trying times. No I wouldn't believe it either.


  • Name: David
    Date posted: 2008-09-25 12:22 AM
    Hometown: Orlando FL

    Comment:

    Look heres the trick, designer accessories. You can only wear those $145.00 jeans once a week at most. But if you drop that same money on a nice pair of ray-ban shades, an amrani watch or some guess shoes, you can look fashionable every day without having the price of a car in your closet.


  • Name: Jerry
    Date posted: 2008-09-24 6:23 PM
    Hometown: Austin

    Comment:

    Michael: I'm afraid that we simply cannot accept your claim re: Old Navy jeans without substantiative photographic evidence...


  • Name: Michael
    Date posted: 2008-09-24 3:02 PM
    Hometown: Parsippany

    Comment:

    I now feel dumber for reading this article! I am a gay man living in NYC, and this article is everything I see wrong with being gay in NYC. No one needs to spend any amount of money on an article of clothing to be part of a culture. I am wearing old navy jeans right now, and my ass looks great, and I proud that I didn't spend $300 on what I am wearing. You need not mask you insecurities in designer clothes.


  • Name: Raymond Robichaud
    Date posted: 2008-09-24 2:08 PM
    Hometown: Maine

    Comment:

    This article presumes we can all afford to look as "Gay fashionable" as magazines and models portray us to be. I used to subscribe to the Advocate, but after 20 years or so - I'm convinced the preferred subscriber should be rich, coordinated, cultured and thin. I belong to the 9% or so - who do not relate culturally with most of the advertisements relating to Health and Beauty "products" or $200 or $300 pants. As you can tell, this article does not connect with this Mainer.


  • Name: Mark
    Date posted: 2008-09-24 1:48 PM
    Hometown: Omaha

    Comment:

    You're kidding, right? Spending $145 on a pair of jeans and thinking that's being cheap? I have never paid more than $50 for jeans EVER, and usually get them for more like $25. And $22 for underwear? I usually buy a 3-pack for eight bucks, and whine about how expensive that is. And I know a lot more gay men (and lesbians) with my spending habits - and very few people with the expensive tastes of the author of this article. There seems to be an emphasis in popular gay culture on outward image of one's self. Gay men are supposed to be thin, work out constantly, wear expensive clothes, eat at trendy restaurants, etc. That so isn't me - and that's one of the reasons why I didn't come out until well into my adulthood. I just don't fit that stereotype. I wonder sometimes if we as a community hurt ourselves by allowing that cultural image to perpetuate itself....


Back to top

Submit a comment for this story:

*Type your comment here (Required, 1000 characters max. HTML formatting and hyperlinks are NOT permitted.):

*Name (Required): 

*Hometown (Required): 

*E-mail address: (Required, but will not be displayed)

Is this comment for publication? 
Yes   No

Daytime phone number: (Required for print publication only and will not be displayed)

Please enter the words you see in the box, in order and separated by a space. Doing so helps prevent automated programs from abusing this service.

  

If you would like to submit a comment for posting, please fill out the form above. 

All comments submitted via this form are subject to posting or publication. (To send a private letter to an Advocate editor or writer, please use the e-mail button at the top of the page, or use snail mail.) If you would like your comment considered for publication in The Advocate magazine, please include your full name, your city of residence, and a phone number where you can be reached during business hours so that we can confirm your identity. Your e-mail address and telephone number are strictly confidential and will not be shared or used for any purpose other than to contact you about your comment.

See the Contact page for sending comments for reasons other than responding to Advocate editorial and news stories.

Please note that comments sent by fax or snail mail are unlikely to be posted, although they will be considered for publication along with all letters received via e-mail or via this Web page. Comments that chiefly concern Advocate.com content will be considered for posting only on the Web site. The Advocate reserves the right to edit submitted comments for grammar, spelling, obscenities, or libel; we will, however, do our best to preserve the original comment's style and intent. Comments considered for publication in The Advocate magazine may also be edited for length.